You’re The GM

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

But they’re ignoring lots of European players to sign these NCAA guys.

We have no Swiss, Danish, or German players in the system.

Two Finns, one of whom is Tuola, who’s never coming back.

Three Swedes, and you don’t hear anything about any of them.

Two Czechs, one Slovak.

Compared to 26 Canadian/US players.

Thank goodness they’ve begun to emphasize taking a Russian every draft.

Like, there are 83M people in Germany - a few of them have to be good at hockey.

I take this is as tongue in cheek.

But the NHL is a competitive league and you have to be better than other teams at some things to be a consistent winner. Scouting US college players is likely something most teams do well and Flames have no distinct advantage in attracting such players.

Is it possible they could actually build a European scouting department that is better than most other teams and give them a leg up in identifying talent? Seems like that could be worth some andditional investment, it would be a pittance compared to what this organization has thrown away on bad UFA contracts and coaching hires over the years.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I take this is as tongue in cheek.

But the NHL is a competitive league and you have to be better than other teams at some things to be a consistent winner. Scouting US college players is likely something most teams do well and Flames have no distinct advantage in attracting such players.

Is it possible they could actually build a European scouting department that is better than most other teams and give them a leg up in identifying talent? Seems like that could be worth some andditional investment, it would be a pittance compared to what this organization has thrown away on bad UFA contracts and coaching hires over the years.

Exactly - you get it.

I’m not suggesting for a second that scouting secondary euro leagues is going to produce an Avalanche of star players.

However, as a source of organizational depth, it’s a better way to supplement your group. I think it’s far more likely to get even half a season out of Euro league pro.

Let’s take some of our own more noteworthy Euro additions from the last decade or so.

Nakladal - 27 GP, 5 Points, -5. Solid enough for a bottom pair D, and better than every college UFA they’ve signed since Feaster took over.

Cervenka - 39 GP, 17 points, -13. The “best player not in the NHL” may not have actually been that, but his 17 points are more than any 4-year NCAA UDFA the Flames have signed except Jooris, and I’m inclined to put Jooris in a different category since he won a contract on the back of his work at development camp.

Berra - 29 GP 2.95 GAA .897 save %, traded for a 2nd round pick. The “best goalie in the draft” (JFC, Feaster…) returned surplus value, even if we did waste the pick on Hunter Smith.

College players are soft. They don’t play very many games. They don’t get punched in the mouth. They wear full cages, so they’ve all got all their teeth.
A guy who plays four years in that environment and still can’t get drafted is no prize. He’s not going to play.

Draft NCAA guys, by all means (though be careful, and vet them properly) - just don’t give away contract slots to a bunch of dudes who are, at least statistically, guaranteed to never impact your fortunes at the NHL level.

Because it’s not just “free assets” - you can take a player in the draft and do nothing with him for two years. Signing a college free agent takes up one of the 50 contracts and prevents you from making other moves.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Because it’s not just “free assets” - you can take a player in the draft and do nothing with him for two years. Signing a college free agent takes up one of the 50 contracts and prevents you from making other moves.

You really aren't prevented from doing anything. Not many teams approach the 50 contract limit. There are three that are at 49 contracts (the best teams in the league who just loaded up) but most float around 45-46. The Flames sit at 45 contracts. Plus, if a deal really needs to be done a minor league contract can be added (and routinely is) to balance out the contract load. Signing free agents cost you nothing but money - no draft picks, not trades of other assets - so viewed as a free asset. You are presenting a red herring to defend your comment about not bothering with college free agents because any free agent or pick that is signed takes up a contract slot. The Flames have been short on picks lately, so the contract level issue shouldn't be an issue for a while.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Exactly - you get it.

I’m not suggesting for a second that scouting secondary euro leagues is going to produce an Avalanche of star players.

However, as a source of organizational depth, it’s a better way to supplement your group. I think it’s far more likely to get even half a season out of Euro league pro.

Let’s take some of our own more noteworthy Euro additions from the last decade or so.

Nakladal - 27 GP, 5 Points, -5. Solid enough for a bottom pair D, and better than every college UFA they’ve signed since Feaster took over.

Cervenka - 39 GP, 17 points, -13. The “best player not in the NHL” may not have actually been that, but his 17 points are more than any 4-year NCAA UDFA the Flames have signed except Jooris, and I’m inclined to put Jooris in a different category since he won a contract on the back of his work at development camp.

Berra - 29 GP 2.95 GAA .897 save %, traded for a 2nd round pick. The “best goalie in the draft” (JFC, Feaster…) returned surplus value, even if we did waste the pick on Hunter Smith.

College players are soft. They don’t play very many games. They don’t get punched in the mouth. They wear full cages, so they’ve all got all their teeth.
A guy who plays four years in that environment and still can’t get drafted is no prize. He’s not going to play.

Draft NCAA guys, by all means (though be careful, and vet them properly) - just don’t give away contract slots to a bunch of dudes who are, at least statistically, guaranteed to never impact your fortunes at the NHL level.

Because it’s not just “free assets” - you can take a player in the draft and do nothing with him for two years. Signing a college free agent takes up one of the 50 contracts and prevents you from making other moves.

I'd be more likely to reduce scouting and use the additional money to convince owners to retain salary in trades to acquire additional mid picks in the draft. The list of guys being tossed around that could be signed is not making an impact. A guy like Panarin was available as a free agent and the media and every scouting service and all 30 teams at the time knew about him already. He's the only real player that made a huge impact that if you signed him, it was a game changer.

2nd to 4th round picks are way more valuable than hoping for some diamond in the rough from some European league. Most high-end Europeans are already picked in the draft.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Berra - 29 GP 2.95 GAA .897 save %, traded for a 2nd round pick. The “best goalie in the draft” (JFC, Feaster…) returned surplus value, even if we did waste the pick on Hunter Smith

Just for the record - Berra was drafted by STL and traded to CGY in the Bouwmeester trade. He wasn't a Euro UFA signing.



Also, Mackey did better than either of the D-men CGY drafted in his draft year - 2014.


Again - if your hoping spaghetti will stick to the wall, may as well get all the noodles you can.

[GioforPM]

Flames scouting staff page has a director and two assistants, one pro scout and like 12 amateur scouts. It doesn't ID any as euro specific but I would imagine Akerblom, Neuhauser and Haanpaa are their euro scouts. They are called amateur though.

[musth]

Flames need to invest in pro scouting. That’s been the biggest disappointment over the years. I mean, if we the fans can see stuff in free agent players, good and bad, surely they can, right? There’s been some bad misreads.

Also, in the case of Cervenka, learn their strengths! What they do, how they play!

I remember being very annoyed that it came out after he went back home that no one knew he played centre or penalty killed.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by musth

Flames need to invest in pro scouting. That’s been the biggest disappointment over the years. I mean, if we the fans can see stuff in free agent players, good and bad, surely they can, right? There’s been some bad misreads.

Also, in the case of Cervenka, learn their strengths! What they do, how they play!

I remember being very annoyed that it came out after he went back home that no one knew he played centre or penalty killed.

I find that a bit hard to believe. I am sure he told everyone and anyone "hey, you know, back in Czechia I played a lot at centre." I'm sure it was old-school thinking by coaches that had him on the wing - ease him into the NA game, not quite big enough to play centre in the NHL, etc...

[musth]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I find that a bit hard to believe. I am sure he told everyone and anyone "hey, you know, back in Czechia I played a lot at centre." I'm sure it was old-school thinking by coaches that had him on the wing - ease him into the NA game, not quite big enough to play centre in the NHL, etc...

It came out in the media