02-01-2023, 09:52 PM
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#121
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addition by subtraction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Heres my take as someone that grew up in rural Illinois and has spent the last 15 years in the south.
Several have touched on access for youth. Huge factor for me. Unlike Canada ice access is rare. Tulsa is a metro with a million people and we have 1 rink for all skating programs. In South Carolina we lived in a town with 100k and it had no ice surface. In Illinois my town was small 35k or so and had no rink. Had to drive 45 miles to towns with 1 or 2 sheets.
You make lifelong fans when you play as a kid. They are invested in the sport so much more. I've got my 6 and 8 year olds that started playing house hockey this year and pretty much every family we have met is transplanted here from traditional hockey markets.
And let's not forget even if you have ice access you probably can't afford it. Hockey has too many barriers to entry. So thats a big problem for popularity.
Reason 2 for me is the evolution of the game. When I go to Oilers games here, most fans are still there for the fights. Most don't realize how different the game is these days. Fighting was a differentiator for hockey. You could bloody someone's face and only suffer a short penalty. For good reasons fighting is reduced in todays game. But that doesn't play well with American audiences. Hitting is an extension of this but I think most casual fans still see enough they don't notice its down over the old days.
Last is access to viewers. Its been hit hard but for me a couple highlights... Bring tied to regional sports networks has hurt. Similar to baseball, its made it too hard to see games. Obviously the article that spawned the thread is about national games, but decades of RSNs has made hockey way less visible. The other side for me would be reaching the younger generation in mediums they like. Hockey is a vast sport with tins of highlight worthy replays. Teams and the league have to leverage social media to get in front of younger eyeballs.
Thats my top 3. Honorable mention would have to go to lack of marketable American players along with meaningful American rivalries. The NHL really overplayed the penguins and caps these last 15 years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
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02-01-2023, 10:05 PM
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#122
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss
I think the product would be better if the NHL designed it for more emotion. I like the product most nights relative to the late-90s and early-2000s. It's a skilled, fast game. But it does lack emotion - there's less hitting, less fighting ect.
I think that would change if the NHL put more emphasis on divisional games and had fewer games each year. That would allow emotion to build, make games more meaningful and allow players more rest between games. Imagine if the league had 70 games per year, where 35 we're played against teams in the same division. Every game would be better.
The NHL could also get rid of rules that try to remove emotion from the game...the instigator penalty should be taken out, the automatic suspension for fighting late in the game should be removed, fines for line brawls should be removed too.
Between that and having lots more divisional games...everyone, including the fans, would be more emotionally involved.
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I hope the NHL starts scheduling more mini-series during the regular season, MLB style.
A random weeknight game against an opponent the fanbases see as inconsequential is kind of boring. Turn it into a series where the teams play each other twice during the week, with the rubber match on the weekend, and you probably end up with more intensity and potential rivalries even if temporary. You would have a better chance of storylines forming and fans getting to know the players and personalities of both teams. A big part of selling the sport is selling the personalities.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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02-01-2023, 10:14 PM
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#123
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Franchise Player
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The NHL could be doing a lot more to try and market the game to younger generation in the US.
Not sending your best players to the Olympics is asinine.
The Flames having their AHL affiliate in Calgary does nothing to grow the game.
They kind of try, but you need to market the players. Not easy with hockey, probably the whitest sport in North America.
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02-01-2023, 10:18 PM
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#124
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Looooooooooooooch
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So I used ChatGPT and asked that NHL viewership is reducing, what can be done to improve that?
Quote:
To improve NHL viewership, the following steps can be considered:
- Increase Accessibility: Make the NHL games more accessible to fans by streaming games online or making it available on more TV networks.
- Promote the Players: Highlight the personalities and stories of the NHL players to help fans connect with them.
- Improve Game Experience: Enhance the in-arena experience for fans to make attending games more attractive.
- Reach Younger Audiences: Utilize social media platforms to target younger audiences and engage with them.
- Innovate Rules and Regulations: Consider changing the rules and regulations of the game to make it more exciting and faster-paced.
- Create Unique Marketing Strategies: Develop creative and innovative marketing strategies to increase the visibility of the NHL.
- Embrace New Technology: Embrace new technologies like virtual and augmented reality to enhance the viewing experience.
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Thanks I'll collect my paycheque now Bettman.
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02-01-2023, 10:39 PM
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#125
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I always thought that it would be good for the game if they did division realignment every season, and didn't force divisions into geographic areas. Using the McDavid example, because as much as we hate the Oilers, he is a major draw, but the same is true for star players. They often get tucked away into some corner of the NHL for most of their career. I think this really hinders the league from taking advantage of marketing their stars across the league to their full potential. Imagine if for example, Pittsburgh was in the same division as Arizona a couple of times during Crosby's peak. It probably would have had a positive effect on growing interest in that area.
It won't happen of course because it would probably add to much travel costs with divisions that ignore time zones. Plus, teams in the east would complain (but honestly, I would love to see travel parity).
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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02-01-2023, 11:14 PM
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#126
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbles
Heres my take as someone that grew up in rural Illinois and has spent the last 15 years in the south.
Reason 1 ..... Tulsa is a metro with a million people and we have 1 rink for all skating programs. In South Carolina we lived in a town with 100k and it had no ice surface. In Illinois my town was small 35k or so and had no rink. Had to drive 45 miles to towns with 1 or 2 sheets ....
Reason 2 for me is the evolution of the game ... most fans are still there for the fights. For good reasons fighting is reduced in todays game. But that doesn't play well with American audiences. Hitting is an extension of this ....
Last is access to viewers. Its been hit hard but for me a couple highlights... Bring tied to regional sports networks has hurt. Similar to baseball, its made it too hard to see games ....
Thats my top 3.
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It is hard to even comprehend that. Here in Cochrane, we have 4 ice surfaces, and also use Cremona and Morley to help with having enough ice. We still need to practice with U11 (9 and 10 year olds in Tier 3) once every 3 weeks before school at 6:30 AM because there is not enough ice to go around. It is unfathomable what the US deals with.
I didnt think removing fighting from the game would remove so many fans. That is very interesting! But, it makes sense; I always loved a good fight, and good Scott Stevens hit, even though I understand why its been removed from the game.
And yeah, the TV product is awful. HD should have been a huge benefit to the NHL, but instead, they used the better technology to add more crappy digital ads instead of way better picture quality. They could have had one camera zoomed out enough to see half the rink, analogous to row 1 of the second level, with no compression, and it would have been probably better than being in the arena. Instead, they zoom way too far in, and then they force digital ads and gambling propoganda right down our throats!
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02-01-2023, 11:19 PM
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#127
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ---
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
This is a generalization but I find a lot of fans of sports claim that the sport is getting worse as they get older.
I think it's more about lives getting busier and interests shifting.
I think the bigger issues for the league is that younger generations consume different types of content in completely different ways. That's where you are going to struggle to get them engaged for a 2.5 - 3 hour block of time. Unless they have stakes: gambling, fantasy leagues, etc.
But I don't think viewership is down because the game is worse. We are all just getting old.
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I too am speaking purely from my personal experience. But I watch more sports now. Just others are taking over. I can watch any NFL game. I watch all the UFC. Got into the Blue Jays. Just so much changes were made to appease the American fans that I dont really find much I enjoy anymore in the game. I know your against hitting and fighting but I mean that was the biggest thing I loved about hockey as a kid. A team would get down and a big fight or hit could really drag a team back into it for a big comeback.
Nowadays players flop like its soccer. Teams get down 5 goals and just pack it up. Thats BS. People paid hundreds to watch that game. Show some anger and some pride. Really just feels like the soul has been sucked out of the NHL.
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02-01-2023, 11:20 PM
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#128
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Franchise Player
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I thought they blew it when they had the Covid games with no fans. Was hoping for cameras on booms swinging around, even on drones to provide amazing new views.
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02-01-2023, 11:21 PM
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#129
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattanboy
I thought they blew it when they had the Covid games with no fans. Was hoping for cameras on booms swinging around, even on drones to provide amazing new views.
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Cant get enough crappy advertising in that way!
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02-01-2023, 11:53 PM
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#130
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Breton Island
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games are unpleasant to watch with constant eye rape of the digital boards and haranguing for you to gamble. If the Jets don't play I'm not watching, and watching Jets games is a chore with the ad boards and constant updates on how you can gamble on the game you're watching. The NHL is atrocious.
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02-02-2023, 12:10 AM
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#131
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Franchise Player
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Also doesn't help that hockey players are basically trained to be as publically interesting as beige paint. If you met someone with the personality of the league's biggest offensive talent at a party you couldn't wait to get away from them.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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02-02-2023, 12:24 AM
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#132
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damn onions
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I see Chat GPT missed the tap in, call the rule book don’t make it up and rig outcomes.
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02-02-2023, 04:28 AM
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#133
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Carlo Colaiacovo posted the problems with with the NHL, most of which were silly.
If your read the responses to the his post it would appear most fans are upset about how the NHL has too many practice jerseys for different causes and how they try to ram social issues down our throats.
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02-02-2023, 06:20 AM
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#134
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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I don't think replay has made the game better. It's such a downer in a game when a goal is scored and overturned because a puck may have been a couple of mm offside, incidental contact to a goaltender, and of course a kicking motion which the NHL still doesn't have a clue how to judge. I'm not saying it's a major reason that TV viewership is down but IMO it's may have a cumulative effect.
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02-02-2023, 06:54 AM
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#135
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
I don't think replay has made the game better. It's such a downer in a game when a goal is scored and overturned because a puck may have been a couple of mm offside, incidental contact to a goaltender, and of course a kicking motion which the NHL still doesn't have a clue how to judge. I'm not saying it's a major reason that TV viewership is down but IMO it's may have a cumulative effect.
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Don't you think that could be said for every major sport? I would think the North American viewer is used to replay challenges by now. Doesn't every touchdown in the NFL get reviewed? Have 1 toe not solidly on the ground or out of bounds and a catch becomes an incomplete pass? Is viewership down in the NFL?
Baseball challenges also take forever and the next thing you know guy is out at second.
When every aspect of the game means money - bonuses, wins to get into playoffs, and gambling - those replays are only going to get worse.
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02-02-2023, 07:11 AM
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#136
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
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https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...01/30/nhl.aspx
I don't know if the article was posted, but this is not anywhere near an apples to apples comparison.
ESPN was showing a lot of Sunday games against the NFL, and there are twice as many games as last year. National regular season NHL games are never going to be a big thing. For more direct comparisons, they are up year over year:
Quote:
Over on ESPN, 18 games to date have averaged 402,000 viewers, down 35% from 622,000 over just seven games on the cable network at the same point last year. That comparison includes six games on Sunday this season (up against the NFL), as well as a big opening night in 2021. There were no weekend games at this point last season. ESPN's 12 non-Sunday NHL games are averaging 491,000 viewers, which would be on pace to beat last year's average.
Total minutes for the NHL on ESPN.com and the ESPN app are up 29% year-over-year, with page views up 38%. ESPN's social media engagements around the NHL are up 224% year-over-year. Social – Engagements are up triple digits YoY (+224%).
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02-02-2023, 07:34 AM
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#137
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Our Jessica Fletcher
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Too many games, the product is boring/frustrating, and the product is expensive. In terms of value to the viewer, the NHL is getting it's ass kicked by the plethora of other options available to the market.
From 2002-2020, I think I would have watched 95%+ of Flames games. This year? I've watched parts of 2 games.
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02-02-2023, 07:48 AM
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#138
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
Also doesn't help that hockey players are basically trained to be as publically interesting as beige paint. If you met someone with the personality of the league's biggest offensive talent at a party you couldn't wait to get away from them.
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Personality is one thing, but to take it a step further, the nhl needs more “villains” . It goes back to the game becoming an emotionless skill vs defensive-scheme-fest.
Whether it’s personality in the interviews or personality/emotion coming out on the ice, the intrigue of bad-blood/emotion is just gone.
Compare the flames/oilers games this year compared to the past few years. No tkachuk/kassian/smith , the intensity of “this could be a nasty game tonight “ has disappeared.
This was such a major differentiator the nhl had compared to other sports, but it’s all but gone.
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02-02-2023, 08:23 AM
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#139
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Our Jessica Fletcher
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Need more ceremonies and shows of support to different causes and groups, before and during the games, as well as discussion on these matters by the analysts during intermission. It's real riveting stuff, exactly the kind of thing sports fans want to see when they set aside 3hrs of their busy schedule to watch hockey.
More national anthems, more politics, more honoring of previous championship teams, more questioning of players on their political & personal beliefs (and lets suspend them without pay if we don't like their response!), more moments of silence for the different wars, conflicts, and natural disasters around the world. Imagine the electricity this would bring to the game. Heck, even moreso if they could somehow incorporate this into those 8 or 9 different gambling apps they keep telling us about.
This will increase viewership, and in no way have the unintended consequence of pushing viewers toward the more enjoyable, more direct, and far cheaper entertainment options at their fingertips.
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02-02-2023, 08:35 AM
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#140
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addition by subtraction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Honestly reading this thread has made me pretty depressed. I'm not sure anyone in this thread even likes hockey??? So many of you posting that you only watch Flames games. I have actually been having a great time with ESPN+ the last couple years. I get random games all night long and love it. It helps that I am not particularly invested in a specific team. Stars are my official favorite, but still follow you guys a ton and the Wings still as well. But I am fine turning on an Islanders Senators game and just appreciating hockey. I am hoping you guys are just dejected from the lack of Flames success.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
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