[Trade] Canucks trade Hamonic to Ottawa for a 3rd

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by blankall

Sounds like Vancouver wanted to get rid of him, and no one else wanted him....how does Ottawa end up giving up a 3rd? Perplexing that future considerations wasn't enough.

Just weird all around. when Van said no to a 5th Ottawa should have been prepared to walk away. Still a good deal for Van but I guess with the deadline coming Dorion didn't want to play chicken so just paid up? Just and odd trade all around

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The ripping of a player on the way out is low class. Just keep it to yourself.

This is becoming a thing in Vancouver. They ran Gaudette out of town on a rail too.

[dino7c]

Why in the #### did the Sens do this? I can't believe there was no 2nd move

[Stud_McCool]

Hamonic has the uncanny ability to make GMs look bad.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I heard a rumour that Hamonic was a bit of a fraud and wasn't well liked in the Flames room prior to him bailing on the playoffs. I almost posted about it then, but anyone saying anything bad about Hamonic was getting piled on, and I didn't feel like dealing with that.

The rumour I heard was in regards to him taking a lot of credit for charity work that he had little to nothing to do with while guys like Backlund and Gio do a ton of stuff behind the scenes and don't ask for any credit. Rubbed guys in the room the wrong way.

The pile-on against posters being critical with regards to Hamonic in 2020 was very upsetting and unfair. Some posters even suggested that I should be blocked and banned over what were ultimately extremely logical viewpoints and assessments.

That said, we should all harbor no ill will towards Hamonic and wish him all the best in Ottawa. Even though it's now clear that he lacks judgement (as I suggested in 2020) and isn't the great team player many thought he was (as I suggested in 2020), he's still probably a decent person who is probably trying his best to be a good teammate, member of society, husband and father. His charity and community work is probably more than most of us will do in our entire lives and remains highly commendable.

Perhaps this is where we should leave the thread. Just wishing him all the best going forward and hoping a change of scenery will allow him and his family a bit of a reset after a few tough years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Stud_McCool

Hamonic has the uncanny ability to make GMs look bad.

Ha ha ha. So true.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This is becoming a thing in Vancouver. They ran Gaudette out of town on a rail too.

Unshockingly, both players were run out of town for being covidiots, so I'm okay with it.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I heard a rumour that Hamonic was a bit of a fraud and wasn't well liked in the Flames room prior to him bailing on the playoffs. I almost posted about it then, but anyone saying anything bad about Hamonic was getting piled on, and I didn't feel like dealing with that.

The rumour I heard was in regards to him taking a lot of credit for charity work that he had little to nothing to do with while guys like Backlund and Gio do a ton of stuff behind the scenes and don't ask for any credit. Rubbed guys in the room the wrong way.

Yeah, we all hear a lot of other ####s from players, especially from the Oilers that can't be substantiated from one fan to another. A good example is all the rumors I hear from my in-laws about certain players on the Oilers but when I ask another friend about those rumors, he's like scratching his head. It's like you can believe anything you want. The worst thing is this pandemic really brought out the worst of everyone.

As for Hamonic, I hated the trade initially only because of 3 things:
1) It was an expensive lesson for Tre as he gave up a high first round draft pick
2) that high draft pick to the Islanders was a result of the team tanking out of nowhere
3) Hamonic took a long time to get adjusted to the Flames system (with so many coaching changes, who wouldn't)

However, once Hamonic got settled in, he's actually a pretty good D-man. He's gritty, was able to jump up into play in the offensive zones, was hard to play against in the defensive zone, added backend toughness that the Flames lacked, and he had a pretty good right hand shot on the point. In fact, I think if we had Sutter as the coach through all those previous years, Hamonic would've shined even more since he was brought in as a stay-at-home type D-man.

I really do think that some fans here are more of players fan rather than true Flames fans where they either really like or really hate the player. For all the players that have moved on from the team, just move on. We can all bitch about the team after a bad game.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What players?

If you are man enough to rip a guy, lets at least put your name to it.

Its bush league stuff to do it anonymously.

And I would venture a guess that if Servalli was told this stuff, it wasnt by players but moreso by management and/or agent(s).

NOPE. You protect your sources.

Report what they say, but don't give them up.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Yeah, we all hear a lot of other ####s from players, especially from the Oilers that can't be substantiated from one fan to another. A good example is all the rumors I hear from my in-laws about certain players on the Oilers but when I ask another friend about those rumors, he's like scratching his head. It's like you can believe anything you want. The worst thing is this pandemic really brought out the worst of everyone.

As for Hamonic, I hated the trade initially only because of 3 things:
1) It was an expensive lesson for Tre as he gave up a high first round draft pick
2) that high draft pick to the Islanders was a result of the team tanking out of nowhere
3) Hamonic took a long time to get adjusted to the Flames system (with so many coaching changes, who wouldn't)

However, once Hamonic got settled in, he's actually a pretty good D-man. He's gritty, was able to jump up into play in the offensive zones, was hard to play against in the defensive zone, added backend toughness that the Flames lacked, and he had a pretty good right hand shot on the point. In fact, I think if we had Sutter as the coach through all those previous years, Hamonic would've shined even more since he was brought in as a stay-at-home type D-man.

I really do think that some fans here are more of players fan rather than true Flames fans where they either really like or really hate the player. For all the players that have moved on from the team, just move on. We can all bitch about the team after a bad game.

Treliving owns the failure that was the Hamonic trade and hopefully a pro scout was fired for it.

I simply do not remember this pretty good Dman you are describing. He was awful in year 1 and many on this board said Brodie was the weak link on that pair.

The average Hamonic-Hanifin pairing also was fairly mediocre and once Hanifin got away from Hamonic did we start to see a guy who is a legit 2-3 Dman on the team.

Trelviing sold Hamonic to the fanbase as having 2 elite D pairings and how he was a heart and soul player on a tremendous contract and he never came close to sniffing at that.

It was a bad trade that was designed to rush a rebuild to completion and it almost derailed the rebuild. Luckily Trelviing was able to make his career defining deal the next summer and being in Lindholm and Hanifin who have become critical core pieces on this team

[CSharp]

Hamonic was as bad as people think. It's just what Treliving dealt him for - everyone agrees is probably one of the huge mistakes Tre has done. However, it wasn't totally his fault as well. I'm not sure what the heck the Flames were doing as a team but they were pretty much in contention for slightly better than half the season and went into tank mode to give away a low first round pick to being a high first round pick. Seriously, how does a team go from top to bottom in one season!?!

I don't know what it is with guys like Hanifin and Bennett. But people seem to be attracted to them. Hanifin can be good at times but man oh man, he can be a stinker and a defensive liability with anyone he's played with. Because he plays soft and doesn't really hit anyone, Hamonic actually covered for him and of course he gets the blames for Hanifin's bad coverages. C'mon, we've seen what Hanifin getting beat on numerous occasions - even on a Sutter team!

[dino7c]

Hanifin is 10x the dman that Hamonic is...you play those hard matchups and you will get burned from time to time.

Hamonic wasn't the better guy on the pairing

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I simply do not remember this pretty good Dman you are describing. He was awful in year 1 and many on this board said Brodie was the weak link on that pair.

The average Hamonic-Hanifin pairing also was fairly mediocre and once Hanifin got away from Hamonic did we start to see a guy who is a legit 2-3 Dman on the team.

Trelviing sold Hamonic to the fanbase as having 2 elite D pairings and how he was a heart and soul player on a tremendous contract and he never came close to sniffing at that.

To me Hamonic was the definition of barely serviceable by the slimmest of margins. He was like a kid constantly getting 51-55% in his test scores. I mean sure he's passing, but at the absolute bare minimum. There was maybe a handful of stretches he played above that bar.

The weirdest part for me was when he was traded here, someone posted one of those weird advanced charts (shaped like a spider's web, can't recall the chart type exactly) and proclaimed that the deficiencies and strengths of both Brodie and Hamonic perfectly filled the gaps in each other, so therefore they would be an awesome pairing. That couldn't have been further from the truth, as that pairing sucked.

He was a whole lotta 'meh' during his tenure here. The assets given up for him made it even harder to swallow.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by CSharp

...

I really do think that some fans here are more of players fan rather than true Flames fans where they either really like or really hate the player. For all the players that have moved on from the team, just move on. We can all bitch about the team after a bad game.

I have heard this complaint from a handful of posters and it doesn't make sense to me. You can't have an educated discussion if "all I care about is the crest on the front, not the name on the back". The game is defined by the players. Amateur scouts study each player and have passionate debates about which player they like for their team. After the draft those players are tracked and scouted as pros, regardless of where they play. Every fan of a team is entitled to be a fan of any player (amateur or pro) intending that said player will develop to be a valuable part of the team that they are also a fan of. You can always debate which player(s) is best for your team.

Darryl Sutter has credited their success this year to key changes in personel. He likes certain players and Brad brought some of them here. Now the team that wears the Flaming "C" on the front is really good, because the names on the back are also very good names.

Of course scouts and fans (and Coaches) will have bias towards the players that they "like", but that doesn't make them less committed to the team. Sometimes the players they like turn out to be good and sometimes they don't.

As a Flames fan I hope all of them turn out to be good, but my view of the players you mentioned;

Harmonic = bottom pairing
Bennett = top 6 good not elite
Hanifin = top 4 good

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Treliving owns the failure that was the Hamonic trade and hopefully a pro scout was fired for it.

I simply do not remember this pretty good Dman you are describing. He was awful in year 1 and many on this board said Brodie was the weak link on that pair.

The average Hamonic-Hanifin pairing also was fairly mediocre and once Hanifin got away from Hamonic did we start to see a guy who is a legit 2-3 Dman on the team.

Trelviing sold Hamonic to the fanbase as having 2 elite D pairings and how he was a heart and soul player on a tremendous contract and he never came close to sniffing at that.

It was a bad trade that was designed to rush a rebuild to completion and it almost derailed the rebuild. Luckily Trelviing was able to make his career defining deal the next summer and being in Lindholm and Hanifin who have become critical core pieces on this team

Hamonic’s value and the overpay were based on 2 things. His contract value and out bidding Toronto, who also wanted him.

He was supposed to provide a different dimension to the Flames D, hard nosed, tough etc.

All 3 were an unmitigated failure, and hopefully lessons were learned.

Outbidding Toronto usually saddles a team with someone like David Clarkson,

Hamonic’s “hard nosed play” meant he was frequently a band aid or had his face caved in by Gudbranson.

But… probably the worst part of the deal, adding insult to injury, is that the cap flexibility his contract provided enabled the team to sign James Neal the summer after he was acquired.

With all that being said, through all the mistakes made, if we cut the losses… we have Gudbranson now & not Hamonic, so that’s a net positive, even if they weren’t acquired for each other.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This is becoming a thing in Vancouver. They ran Gaudette out of town on a rail too.

The same Gaudette who did nothing in Chicago and was placed on waivers? I don’t recall anything overly negative that was said about him, just that he didn’t meet expectations, which is surprising because he really was very bad in his last year. Not offensively talented enough for the top six and a massive defensive liability on the bottom six. Put more effort into video games than training and for a tall professional athlete had an incredibly skinny frame. That can work for a select few players but you need to have a special skill set (like Gaudreau or Petersson) otherwise you just get knocked off the puck a lot.

[DoubleK]

Gaudette infected the team with Covid

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

... You can't have an educated discussion if "all I care about is the crest on the front, not the name on the back". The game is defined by the players. Amateur scouts study each player and have passionate debates about which player they like for their team. After the draft those players are tracked and scouted as pros, regardless of where they play. Every fan of a team is entitled to be a fan of any player (amateur or pro) intending that said player will develop to be a valuable part of the team that they are also a fan of. You can always debate which player(s) is best for your team.

Darryl Sutter has credited their success this year to key changes in personel. He likes certain players and Brad brought some of them here. Now the team that wears the Flaming "C" on the front is really good, because the names on the back are also very good names.

...

As a Flames fan I hope all of them turn out to be good, but my view of the players you mentioned;

Harmonic = bottom pairing
Bennett = top 6 good not elite
Hanifin = top 4 good

it's never an educated discussion when you have a bunch of people with their minds made up and stuck on the same thoughts. A good example is where you have a bunch of rednecks sitting around in a camp fire doing a Kumbaya and branding someone. You know what I mean.

Sure some players do define the face of the team and some do stick out more than others on their performances. My point is, no one player is above the team, especially on the Flames where not one player can make or break it. It's a collection of the players will make a successful or a loser team. We've basically have nearly the same core for the last 5 years and we've seem the inconsistencies. Since the start of the rebuild, I kept saying that this team is too small, even when Tre added some toughness and size, they're still playing too small.

As for the players mentioned, here's what they actually are as a Flames - not anywhere else:

Hamonic - placed in the top 4 and paired with Hanifin
- this is with 3 of the coaches the Flames have had while Hamonic was in the lineup
- Hamonic is past his prime after he's moved on from the Flames - so, it's really no point of discussion, but yet some are still upset over him over the COVID protocols.

Bennett - was never a top 6 and was in and out of the lineup as bottom 6 at best
- thing is, he's given ample opportunities
- He's not a Flames anymore, so who cares - end of discussion

Hanifin - I don't disagree he's top 4 right now but we've seen how soft he is and how bad he can play at times. Last few years since the Flames have acquired him, he's shown glimpses of being pretty good but he's also shown us how bad he can be. It's like JBo - on a really good team like the Blues where they're big and strong defensively, JBo will be fine. On a team like the Flames, the guy is a liability. This is like Hanifin - more stay-at-home type. He's been playing well most of this season but there are still times where he's just out of position. Should he be in the top D-pairing with Andersson? He's probably like what we've said - top 4 - best with Tanev. But the way Sutter has his D-pairing, he's got an offensive and defensive mix for each pair on every line. So, as I've said before, you can't really interchange Kylington and Hanifin.

But circling back to the point about Hamonic - he is not as bad a D-man as some of you made him out to be. Even I didn't like him initially because of what the Flames gave up for him but he's what the Flames needed at the time - a right shot, gritty, hard-nose D-man. From what the scouts have described Hamonic, he was more of a stay-at-home D-man but it turns out, the Flames actually got more out of Hamonic as he was able to join the rushes and had a pretty good shot on the point. After the second season with the Flames, he was exactly what Tre traded him for - just not the price anyone would have paid for. So, that's that. But to say Hanifin is 10x the D-man that Hamonic was - that's a joke and a pretty biased one.

[Johnny Makarov]

The Hamonic trade might be the 3rd worst in Flames history after Savard and Gilmour.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The Hamonic trade might be the 3rd worst in Flames history after Savard and Gilmour.

Mullen.