[Trade] Brandon Hagel + 2x4ths to TBL for Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, 2023 1st, 2024 1st

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

He's unlikely to get 17:28 in Tampa. By all accounts, they brought him in because they are trying to build a third line to replace the one they let go last summer. Third-line wingers don't get that kind of ice time.

My original point in all this was to emphasize his value beyond this year. They will undoubtedly bring him along slowly, but he has a bright future IMO. He will grow with the team-he is still a few years away from his prime. I never said he would get 17+ minutes in TB, but he’ll get more than 10. You don’t pay the kind of price they did for a player you think will never be more than a third liner.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sandman

His average TOI this year is 17:28, and you don't really think he'll continue to get 10 minutes of ice-time a game, do you? I don't think they paid that price to bring him to TB, just to give him that kind of treatment...

I expect he’ll get more, but instead of being in a top 6 role with Chicago and getting some PP time, he’ll get 3rd line ice time with limited PP time. So, his ice time will reflect that.

It’s not unusual for players getting less ice time to have their usage and premium ice time increase going to a worse team. Unfortunately, the opposite is true.

If I was rating Hagel for fantasy purposes, this trade made him less valuable. The expectation that he could score more because he was going to a better team makes no sense. Especially since that is not why TB traded for him. They see him as a possible elite checking 3rd line winger.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sandman

My original point in all this was to emphasize his value beyond this year. They will undoubtedly bring him along slowly, but he has a bright future IMO. He will grow with the team-he is still a few years away from his prime. I never said he would get 17+ minutes in TB, but he’ll get more than 10. You don’t pay the kind of price they did for a player you think will never be more than a third liner.

Actually you do if you need that type of player and you are trying to win the cup on a cap strapped team. I have little doubt they love the player. But I have little doubt they aren’t expecting a huge amount of untapped offensive power from a guy who’s been shooting at an unsustainable 24% scoring percentage.

But I was originally simply responding to the post that suggested that he would score more with a TB. I figured that less ice time and PP time and a regression in his shooting % meant less points in his immediate future, not more.

[Enoch Root]

I think it's reasonable to expect that his ice time is going to drop in Tampa - maybe to something like 14-15 minutes per game. And playing on the 3rd line, and likely seeing little PP time, his production is going to go down. Pretty much a given.

But that doesn't change what kind of player he is.

I think Tampa paid a LOT for him. But he is a good player, and he is going to continue to be a good player, playing on a very good team.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Has there ever been a whinier bag of #### than Jonathan Toews?

Can anyone show me a similiar player in history who had already won everything a couple of times and is this vocal about the moves their GM makes? It’s insane. I can’t stand Toews.

[Toonage]

Marty St. Louis complained his way onto Team Canada

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Marty St. Louis complained his way onto Team Canada

Yeah that was brutal. He wasn’t a captain or widely considered some sort of elite leader like Toews inexplicably is. Nor is he somehow in the top 100 “players of all time”. So, I put him a tier back in “whiniest players ever” category.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yeah that was brutal. He wasn’t a captain or widely considered some sort of elite leader like Toews inexplicably is. Nor is he somehow in the top 100 “players of all time”. So, I put him a tier back in “whiniest players ever” category.

Wait, St. Louis whining was brutal or my example was brutal?

If it was my example, well

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Has there ever been a whinier bag of #### than Jonathan Toews?

Can anyone show me a similiar player in history who had already won everything a couple of times and is this vocal about the moves their GM makes? It’s insane. I can’t stand Toews.

The mythical status of Toews sure has taken a hit in the past few years. A great player undeniably, but the lauded leadership that has been discussed at length whenever there is a discussion about him sure looks debatable now. Between the obvious scandals and this stuff I have to think that maybe being on a great team and winning doesn’t exactly make someone an amazing leader… it just means that they were on great team.

[The Cobra]

It wouldn't shock me if Raddysh out scores Hagel the rest of the year, as he's getting much better and more premium ice time than the 4th line minutes he was getting with TB.

He has 3 points already including a PP goal.

Usage is everything in a lot of respects.

It doesn't make him a better player, but he was a pretty good player coming out of junior playing on a line with Strome and Debrincat.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

He's unlikely to get 17:28 in Tampa. By all accounts, they brought him in because they are trying to build a third line to replace the one they let go last summer. Third-line wingers don't get that kind of ice time.

2 members of that third line they let go averaged more than 17 minutes per game in the playoffs with the other one averaging over 16.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Marty St. Louis complained his way onto Team Canada

Always put me off him. Implicit in that complaint is the statement that one of the other forwards was not deserving. Which guy do you think didn’t deserve to be there, Marty?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Wait, St. Louis whining was brutal or my example was brutal?

If it was my example, well

Oh sorry, St. Louis being a whiney bitch was brutal.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bax

2 members of that third line they let go averaged more than 17 minutes per game in the playoffs with the other one averaging over 16.

I was thinking more of the regular season. Point conceded about playoffs.