Buy?/Sell?/All-in?/Tank? What should the Flames do?

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

We’re talking about one of the least successful franchises in pro sports in the last 30 years. We have a weak prospect pool, are close the to cap, the worst building in the league, fishbowl situation with constant media scrutiny, undesirable market in a cold climate, bad GM, a general lack of true top end talent, mediocre fans, middling yet absentee ownership.

Frankly I’m amazed that people still cheer for the flames at all. Does no one remember 5 months ago when this forum wanted Tre fired and to rebuild? To start from scratch because Johnny doesn’t perform in the playoffs, because Monahan is washed up, Chucky was a cancer in the room with his tantrums? Or the outrage over players telling Chucky to calm down because he was the only guy with passion? Valimaki’s progress stalling, not getting Eichel, signing a bunch of grinder plugs in the off-season…I could go on.

We win a few games and now people are dreaming of a cup run. Feel free to quote this post when we lose in 5 games in the first round. Again.

In a sense I agree with you about the team's overall trajectory or prospects here in the next five years, I don't love it. But just saying "Well sorry boys you're not good enough so we're selling high on all of you." doesn't seem right either - it certainly doesn't guarantee a better future.

I think it hinges on the Gaudreau and Tkachuk signings. I have no idea what they are going to cost, or how happy they are to stay. Without those two, this team is .... bad. So I kinda think it's chips-in now, cuz the future ain't great in any event - if there's some momentum here, let's capitalize and have a few really good years.

[TheSquatch]

And why I say the future isn't super bright is that this isn't a team where the bottom half is built from prospects - the bottom half of the team is has-beens.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Add pavelski and toffoli and see what the team can get done. Both players would fit like gloves IMO.

[timbit]

So very interesting with the all star break upon us, after a tremendous last two weeks, a very beneficial home heavy schedule moving forward…


Yet, some will insist on doom and gloom moving forward , based on very suspect hypotheses.

Kind of sad.

Enjoy watching a good team. Try living in the present.

[Geeoff]

I'd be looking for more long-term pieces. RFAs that have hit an impasse in contract negotiations, teams looking for a change in direction etc.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The usual rentals.

A depth 4-6th defenceman.

A third line checker who can compliment the scoring now and then.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Sell/tank.

Johnny and Chucky are going to regress hard once they get paid. This season is a perfect storm of contract years and new coach. Once they have the big contracts and tune out Sutter, we’re doomed. Tanev has seen better days, Coleman contract will be an albatross, Mangiapane is not likely to see this much success again and he’s gonna paid, Markstrom won’t look so hot when our team is struggling etc.

There has never been a better time to rebuild and start from scratch. For once we need to sell high and rebuild at the right time. Not sell and tank when all our guys are over the hill or having career worst seasons.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by timbit

So very interesting with the all star break upon us, after a tremendous last two weeks, a very beneficial home heavy schedule moving forward…


Yet, some will insist on doom and gloom moving forward , based on very suspect hypotheses.

Kind of sad.

Enjoy watching a good team. Try living in the present.

Sports is sadness personified. If you’re getting enjoyment out of it, you’re doing it wrong. At least that’s what CP has taught me over the last 15 years.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Sports is sadness personified. If you’re getting enjoyment out of it, you’re doing it wrong. At least that’s what CP has taught me over the last 15 years.

Sell.

Buy.

What does it matter?

We'll all be dead soon enough, right Cecil?

[Steve Macfarlane]

I've been saying they should go all in for a while. The window is now, but they need help to get to the next level.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...tthew-tkachuk/

[slcrocket]

Sadly, I'm more with Cecil than I am on Team Stanley Cup; this team is not a contender, even with some of the more popular moves being branded about (Toffoli, Gurianov, etc.). Even with moves like that, I don't think Calgary as presently constituted wins a series with Tampa/Colorado/Vegas/Florida/Carolina/etc.

So for me it's about asset management as we build. I would move Mangiapane if there is someone beating down the door for him; I can't see his value ever being higher than it is, and we can't afford him with Tkachuk & Gaudreau who I believe we should be building around.

I don't think I blow it up but this team needs several pieces to be a competitor. I want guys who are Sutter-type guys at bargain prices. That screams Toffoli. But I wouldn't be trading high picks or top prospects for him. If you can move Monahan for anything at the deadline, and move Mangiapane + Valimaki to Montreal for Toffoli/Hoffman/pick (assuming you can re-sign Tkachuk & Gaudreau), that would be thrilling.

Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tkachuk
Coleman/Backlund/Toffoli
Lucic/Dube/Hoffman
Richardson/Ruzicka/Ritchie

Hold on to your picks and your best prospects, and hope that some of Gawdin/Pospisil/Zary/Pelletier can make the jump in the next year and unseat Ritchie/Richardson.

Of course, if you CAN'T re-sign Tkachuk & Gaudreau, I might re-think a more significant re-tooling.

[TheSquatch]

This is the thing the "go now, we're great!" people just won't admit - the team isn't anywhere near a Stanley Cup. They'll make the playoffs this year, and might even win a round. But the best teams in this league are far deeper than the Flames.

The first line is good enough. The defense might be good enough. The goalie is probably good enough. But there's this huge gaping wound that is the bottom six forwards.

So it's gonna be tough slugging in the playoffs, you betcha.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

This is the thing the "go now, we're great!" people just won't admit - the team isn't anywhere near a Stanley Cup. They'll make the playoffs this year, and might even win a round. But the best teams in this league are far deeper than the Flames.



The first line is good enough. The defense might be good enough. The goalie is probably good enough. But there's this huge gaping wound that is the bottom six forwards.



So it's gonna be tough slugging in the playoffs, you betcha.

If only there was a thread where we could discuss possible roster additions that might help us compete better against the top teams in the playoffs....

[lazypucker]

Regardless of standing, the Flames should find a way to get rid of Monahan and Backlund. Both are making 1.5 mil too much and for 2 years too long. BTW, Coleman is also in this category too.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane need to be paid.

[timbit]

Depends on what you believe are the true team indicators of being a true SC contender.

Obviously, there are many.

Standings and point percentage ( disparity of games played)

I believe GF/GA differential, GAA, and combined PP and PK %, are very important.

The Flames are right at the top ( above average in the latter) in these very important indicators.

Their overloaded road record winning percentage is right near the top. Minimized home record is fine.

I believe the Flames , despite a very unbalanced away/home first half schedule,
are legitimate SC contenders at this point.

[iggyloob12]

No to sell/tank. At minimum we need to add scoring to improve the second line, which would also help balance out the bottom six. If it doesn’t work in the playoffs and players leave and/or don’t sign long-term in the off-season, then you pivot to rebuild mode. Now isn’t the time.

[Caboroddy]

They have to sign Johnny and Mathew to long term contacts or anyone with term won’t be open to a trade if they have any term and restrictions on where they play. If we don’t lock up some top players now this team will never get over the bubble. IMO. We have to commit at some point. I hope they go after toffoli and forget about Gio. He’s a great player but this team has shown this year to be better without him. Bring in some younger long term talent.

[FlamesAddiction]

You can't sell in a season where the team is highly competitive. There is still time before the trade deadline, so maybe that changes, but as of now... no way.

What would that say to the other players on the team and potential future players? Guys like Markstrom, Tanev, Lindholm, Hanifin, and Coleman signed long term deals and you would be ripping away a chance to possibly make a playoff run. Take all their hard work away from them? No players will want to sign with Calgary in the future if they think management will tear down in the middle of a successful season just to save themselves. Current players will also think twice about staying.

It's a really bad look. You might lose Gaudreau in the offseason, but the long term repercussions out weight that. At this point, you are lucky to get the Iginla package for Gaudreau... it's just not worth it.

[gvitaly]

If we look at last year's finals MTL were actually sellers at the deadline Edit: my mistake. The lightning were mostly set with Kucherov coming back from LTIR. In fact, I think the only teams that added that year and are still happy about it now are Florida(Bennett) and Boston(Hall).

That said I still hope something major happens with the Flames. Being in on every trade, but not getting anything done has been our moto for too long now.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by timbit

So very interesting with the all star break upon us, after a tremendous last two weeks, a very beneficial home heavy schedule moving forward…


Yet, some will insist on doom and gloom moving forward , based on very suspect hypotheses.

Kind of sad.

Enjoy watching a good team. Try living in the present.

Are you suggesting there is a better predictor of future results than...past results?


Whatever we do, do it deliberately. The best window for a re-tool was 2-3 years ago. It doesn't really matter if the re-build starts in 1 month, 5 months, 13 months, 25 months, or a bit longer. Push all-in now. If it fails, pivot deliberately in the other direction.


This rebuild didn't [presumably] fail because of the many, many 1st and 2nd rd picks Sutter traded away from 2004-2010. The problems were not sufficiently replenishing this deficit and accelerating a rebuild built around 3.5 successfully developed draft picks from 2009-2014 (Ferland, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett)...which is both bad drafting and running a pick deficit every year but 2013.