Do you consider "homemaker" to be a job?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But that’s not really how it works. Your time has no tangible monetary value. You are out real money by paying for a cleaner.

Otherwise we should all have 24/7 personal care workers looking after our every need. Then we’d have unlimited free time, think of how much that’s worth!

I value my time more than I value money in a lot of situations.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I value my time more than I value money in a lot of situations.

But you said evaluating the cost as extravagant isn’t accurate. It is.

No matter how much you value your time over money, you can’t make that trade off of you can’t afford it. There is no greater luxury in life than paying people to do things that you don’t feel like doing.

I can’t cut my own hair, I could change my tires but don’t have the equipment or the space to do so, I can cook but I also don’t eat out for every meal. Most things we pay people to do, we need them to. Or at the very least, we lack much of the resources to do.

Not cleaning your own house is, without question, the ultimate luxury. Other than not wiping your own ass or dressing yourself, I can’t even think of a more unnecessary luxury item.

That’s not to say it is bad or that I don’t understand why you think it’s good value. But it pretty much defines an extravagant expense.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But that’s not really how it works. Your time has no tangible monetary value. You are out real money by paying for a cleaner.

Otherwise we should all have 24/7 personal care workers looking after our every need. Then we’d have unlimited free time, think of how much that’s worth!

Within a reasonable amount of surplus dollars and surplus time they are completely interchangeable.

Obviously going one direction to far you run out of money and the other way you run out of time.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Also, if some of your jobs are so ####ty, stressful, and awful quit

do something else

Simplistic view of a complex situation.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Weitz

This isn't really an accurate portrayal of this. What is your time worth? My cleaner does in 2 hours what would take me 3 or 4 and I pay them about the same as Sliver.

So me doing that is actually costing me money based on how I value my time.

This is flawed thinking though. Unless you are taking time off work to clean your house it is absolutely costing you money to get a cleaner instead of doing it yourself. You really cant apply your hourly rate to something completely unrelated to your day job and say your time is worth x, your free time is worth 0$ an hour

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GGG

Within a reasonable amount of surplus dollars and surplus time they are completely interchangeable.

Obviously going one direction to far you run out of money and the other way you run out of time.

Not unless you’re talking about death or the end of he universe, no he won’t run out of time to clean his house.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

Maybe that's what you're missing... Daytime hours aren't for bon-bons and soap operas... They're for pilates and spin classes.

You want to talk about inequality and worthiness? I'm not worthy of my wife's ass

As politically incorrect as this will come off sounding, that's a pretty good use of her time. If you're supporting her with a nice lifestyle financially, she's doing all the meals and kid stuff and keeping in smoke-show shape...doesn't sound so bad.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Not unless you’re talking about death or the end of he universe, no he won’t run out of time to clean his house.

The time you run out of is your spare non committed time.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I value my time more than I value money in a lot of situations.

And its not even that. I have a cleaner for my office and a house-cleaner.

Its not just the time itself, its also the nature of the task. I can clean my own office and/or home but I'd rather not. I'd rather pay someone to do a good, professional job rather than suffer doing it myself and doing a half-assed, disinterested job.

And it actually works well for me because the task is completed on my off-time.

I go to work and my house gets cleaned, or I'm at home and my office gets cleaned so its not actually using my productive time.

And as many have mentioned, 'off-time' is productive time. Everyone needs rest or you're going to burn out.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Locke

And its not even that. I have a cleaner for my office and a house-cleaner.

Its not just the time itself, its also the nature of the task. I can clean my own office and/or home but I'd rather not. I'd rather pay someone to do a good, professional job rather than suffer doing it myself and doing a half-assed, disinterested job.

And it actually works well for me because the task is completed on my off-time.

I go to work and my house gets cleaned, or I'm at home and my office gets cleaned so its not actually using my productive time.

And as many have mentioned, 'off-time' is productive time. Everyone needs rest or you're going to burn out.

We're not all in a competition to out-frugal each other, anyway. All of us can come up with examples of where we splurge and where we scrimp. I fought tooth and nail against a house cleaner before we got ours because it seemed like an egregious waste of money to me. Now I couldn't live without it. Love leaving work from a normal house and coming home to an immaculate show home.

I had to type all that because I couldn't just click "thanks" on your post (still out).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

We're not all in a competition to out-frugal each other, anyway. All of us can come up with examples of where we splurge and where we scrimp. I fought tooth and nail against a house cleaner before we got ours because it seemed like an egregious waste of money to me. Now I couldn't live without it. Love leaving work from a normal house and coming home to an immaculate show home.

I had to type all that because I couldn't just click "thanks" on your post (still out).

Yes. Its a great feeling, and whats even better is that you dont have to worry about when you're going to find the time to do it or if you and your spouse have to alternate its just something that gets done in the background. It actually eliminates a lot of stress.

During the height of the Pandemic it was actually awful because the cleaner couldnt come in and do the job because we had so many people stuck in the house practically 24/7 and she couldnt practically work around them all.

I had 10 people living in my house for a few months and of those people only 2 ever left to go to work. Everyone else was either working or going to school remotely from home.

Its interesting because we were talking a few pages ago about people going from their moms directly to their girlfriends/wives, but I lived on my own for several years and cleaned the place myself.

Now I dont have to.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Once kids are in grade one and above, I don't get what a stay-at-home parent is doing all day? Make-work projects? If you're organized looking after a home is barely an hour-a-day job responsibility. It's certainly not a job in the way actually going to work is a job.

There's a lot of office jobs that basically have this description as well.

[CliffFletcher]

I wonder how many people in this thread who have cleaners now as adults had them as children. Because it seems way more common now than it used to be. When I was a kid only rich people had cleaners.

What changed? I doubt the cost of cleaners has gotten any cheaper. More disposable income? People getting increasingly grossed out with cleaning? Evolving social norms making it so middle class people are more comfortable with paying a stranger to clean up after them?

[Jason14h]

If the housekeeper excepts the working partner to pick up equal duties when the kids are home , and are spending less the 7 hrs on the house (a guarantee almost) then yes they are a parasite

I look at the simple math . What’s is the working partners spare time worth ? For easy math let’s say $100/hr

If the housekeeper does 3 hrs of work a day every work day (15 hrs of chores a week not unreasonable ) effectively they have saved the working partner $750 worth of time effort (assuming otherwise chores split down the middle )

So $3000 a week is their value to the working partner. (+the value you
Place on a sexy partner if they are staying fit !!!)

It is not a job - it is proving utility to the working partner which can have a value placed on it

In that way no different then hiring a cleaner . Yes your stay at home partners value is nothing more then a math equation ��

Having worked from home with the partner for the past 18 months I can say one thing - having all the chores down during the day sure opens a lot of free time

Instead of taking a work lunch for 30/60 mins I get laundry done , mow lawn, clean etc

By 4/5 we’re done work and other then cooking (which someone will usually prep during the day) chores are all done

Add in a few hrs on the weekend and basically you have free time galore. So there is definentely value in a homemaker assuming they actually “do their job” as it opens free time for the other partner immediately vs in an earlier retirement

Present value of time/money at its finest

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yes. Its a great feeling, and whats even better is that you dont have to worry about when you're going to find the time to do it or if you and your spouse have to alternate its just something that gets done in the background. It actually eliminates a lot of stress.

During the height of the Pandemic it was actually awful because the cleaner couldnt come in and do the job because we had so many people stuck in the house practically 24/7 and she couldnt practically work around them all.

I had 10 people living in my house for a few months and of those people only 2 ever left to go to work. Everyone else was either working or going to school remotely from home.

Its interesting because we were talking a few pages ago about people going from their moms directly to their girlfriends/wives, but I lived on my own for several years and cleaned the place myself.

Now I dont have to.

Another awesome thing is it all gets done at once. Before our cleaners, sometimes we'd knock off the bathrooms Thursday night. Dusting and vacuuming on Saturday morning. Scrub the stove Tuesday. Like, it was hard to find the time to do a full uninterrupted clean top to bottom.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If the housekeeper excepts the working partner to pick up equal duties when the kids are home , and are spending less the 7 hrs on the house (a guarantee almost) then yes they are a parasite

I look at the simple math . What’s is the working partners spare time worth ? For easy math let’s say $100/hr

If the housekeeper does 3 hrs of work a day every work day (15 hrs of chores a week not unreasonable ) effectively they have saved the working partner $750 worth of time effort (assuming otherwise chores split down the middle )

So $3000 a week is their value to the working partner. (+the value you
Place on a sexy partner if they are staying fit !!!)

It is not a job - it is proving utility to the working partner which can have a value placed on it

In that way no different then hiring a cleaner . Yes your stay at home partners value is nothing more then a math equation ��

Having worked from home with the partner for the past 18 months I can say one thing - having all the chores down during the day sure opens a lot of free time

Instead of taking a work lunch for 30/60 mins I get laundry done , mow lawn, clean etc

By 4/5 we’re done work and other then cooking (which someone will usually prep during the day) chores are all done

Add in a few hrs on the weekend and basically you have free time galore. So there is definentely value in a homemaker assuming they actually “do their job”

This seems dangerously close to prostitution....

That being said, I never had a cleaner when I was a kid. I was the cleaner. Which is how I learned how to do it.

I just have more things I'd rather do now.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Another awesome thing is it all gets done at once. Before our cleaners, sometimes we'd knock off the bathrooms Thursday night. Dusting and vacuuming on Saturday morning. Scrub the stove Tuesday. Like, it was hard to find the time to do a full uninterrupted clean top to bottom.

Much of my stress comes from timing and planning.

Spending all day at work knowing that stove or that toilet is at home waiting for you sucks.

Now I dont worry about it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wonder how many people in this thread who have cleaners now as adults had them as children. Because it seems way more common now than it used to be. When I was a kid only rich people had cleaners.

What changed? I doubt the cost of cleaners has gotten any cheaper. More disposable income? People getting increasingly grossed out with cleaning? Evolving social norms making it so middle class people are more comfortable with paying a stranger to clean up after them?

I remember I had one friend who lived in Hawkwood who had a house cleaner and I just couldn't fataing believe it. It felt like he had a butler as far as I was concerned. Up until then, I had no idea just normal people in Calgary had house cleaners. We're talking early to mid 90s here.

As for what changed? IDK, but I'm sure glad it did because they really are an accessible luxury for many dual-income households.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

During the height of the Pandemic it was actually awful because the cleaner couldnt come in and do the job because we had so many people stuck in the house practically 24/7 and she couldnt practically work around them all.

I had 10 people living in my house for a few months and of those people only 2 ever left to go to work. Everyone else was either working or going to school remotely from home.

Couldn’t those people who spent all day in the house take some time to clean it? If each of them took even half the time they normally spent commuting every day and instead cleaned a sink or pushed a vacuum around, the place would have been spotless.

Also, everyone had nothing but time on their hands on weekends during the pandemic.

[The Yen Man]

I would say whether or not I'd consider it a "job" is totally dependent on each household.

Household 1: Homemaker takes care of the kids full time, does majority of household chores, cooking, cleaning, scheduling, etc. Definitely full time job, in fact, probably a harder job than most of our "working" jobs.

Household 2: Homemaker has a nanny, a cleaning service, doesn't really do a lot of the household chores, just at home to spend time with children. Can be a job up to when kids are at school especially when kids are junior high or older. That would be way less of a job vs. Household 1.

Just my opinion on it. But whatever works for each family, I'm not judging. Maybe the working individual is more than happy his/her spouse is maintaining the household.