Former NHLer Jimmy Hayes passes away at age 31

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Cocaine is often cut or contaminated with fentanyl, without the knowledge of the user. I was talking with someone in health care about this a while ago, and he said we’re going to see more and more celebrities, pro athletes, etc OD because using cocaine these days is playing Russian Roulette.

Thousands of ordinary people in BC alone have died because of this just in the past few years. If wealthy people can’t even get quality assurance on the product, this should serve as a big warning for people buying from Terry at local clubs.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Thousands of ordinary people in BC alone have died because of this just in the past few years. If wealthy people can’t even get quality assurance on the product, this should serve as a big warning for people buying from Terry at local clubs.

You know Terry?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Thousands of ordinary people in BC alone have died because of this just in the past few years. If wealthy people can’t even get quality assurance on the product, this should serve as a big warning for people buying from Terry at local clubs.

Yup. Unbeknownst to him, my cousin's fiancée started using cocaine recreationally last summer. And unbeknownst to her, she had gotten a bad batch laced with fentanyl. One day in October, he came home from work mid-day and found her dead on their bedroom floor.

Knowing anyone who is using should be terrifying these days.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Cocaine is often cut or contaminated with fentanyl, without the knowledge of the user. I was talking with someone in health care about this a while ago, and he said we’re going to see more and more celebrities, pro athletes, etc OD because using cocaine these days is playing Russian Roulette.

Should be a wake up call, In most cases the dealers to the stars don't even know it's laced. Last summer a well known nightclub dealer was charged with murdering a big supplier after 3 people died because of the coke laced with fentanyl he sold them.

China, the gift that keeps giving.

[chedder]

Really scary for a parent of teenagers when they tell you cocaine is readily available at high school parties.

Just have to hope you've had the right talks and educated them (and even subtly put the fear that this could kill them) so your kids don't try it in the first place.

[GranteedEV]

We're reaching a point in society where popular hard drugs like cocaine, mdma and LSD, need to be legalized and regulated just to keep fentanyl out of them, IMO. You're not going to stop the tweakers, at least you can stop the experimenters (who are usually teenagers) from this kind of worst case scenario.

edit: of course, having buyers of these require passing some sort of licensing test to knoe they're aware of the dangers makes all too much sense. Educate, but regulate.

[bluejays]

Hate to be prescriptive in this situation, nor talk down to a guy who passed away, but when you hear rumors of the NHL having drug problems, weather recreational or prescriptive, there's probably a lot of it that everyone turns a blind eye to. Certainly Hayes shouldn't be given a pass for using a drug, but if you were hooked since your playing days, it's probably harder to get off in your post playing days. Now a kid is left fatherless. Really it's on Hayes and the NHL and teams to put resources to clean this stuff up. Could be education, could be treatment, but I think they should do something as this stuff comes out in the open more and more.

[speede5]

What's the gain for sellers to lace with Fent anyway? Is it just to get people more addicted to the product? Seems killing your clients is a bad business model.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by speede5

What's the gain for sellers to lace with Fent anyway? Is it just to get people more addicted to the product? Seems killing your clients is a bad business model.

A lot of times it’s not on purpose. Cross contamination and all it takes is the tiniest flake of fentanyl to cause an overdose. Someone using the same tool to cut different drugs or many other ways.

Spoiler!

These are lethal doses of each.

With cocaine you can see what could happen if even the tiniest fleck is mixed into it either on purpose or by accident.

[agulati]

This whole thing is so tragic. Not just with Hayes, but so many young lives being lost to this. We need to keep working on education and any other means necessary to help with this.

[cral12]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

We're reaching a point in society where popular hard drugs like cocaine, mdma and LSD, need to be legalized and regulated just to keep fentanyl out of them, IMO. You're not going to stop the tweakers, at least you can stop the experimenters (who are usually teenagers) from this kind of worst case scenario.

edit: of course, having buyers of these require passing some sort of licensing test to knoe they're aware of the dangers makes all too much sense. Educate, but regulate.

This!

I'd encourage checking out the work of Dr. Carl Hart.

His latest book:
Drug Use For Grown-ups: Chasing Liberty In The Land Of Fear

He's been on a lot of podcasts as well.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by speede5

What's the gain for sellers to lace with Fent anyway? Is it just to get people more addicted to the product? Seems killing your clients is a bad business model.

Cocaine is plenty addictive in it's "Clean" form. It's more at the supply end where all manner of cheaper substances are liable to get cut in to increase profit (Baby powder is extremely popular for this purpose but is, ahem, fairly easy to sniff out), especially if they're distributing downstream at wholesale quantities, they mix in all kinds of filler, Fentanyl's likely used to ensure the end product still has a desirable (addictive/potent) effect, to disastrous ends.

It really does need legalization/regulation at this point, I can't see there being any fixing the opioid crisis without destigmatizing these popular street drugs, ensuring their purity, and regulating their use.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by speede5

What's the gain for sellers to lace with Fent anyway? Is it just to get people more addicted to the product? Seems killing your clients is a bad business model.

Fentanyl is cheap and easy to make and it's very potent in small quantities, which is in some ways convenient.

It just doesn't sell very well on it's own for good reason.

So you take a bunch of something that will sell like cocaine, cut it down until it's mostly creatine powder or whatever, and then add that cheap fentanyl for the kick. The financial reasons make perfect sense.

Of course since it's a so strong, rather small differences in quantity makes the difference between recreational use and overdose, and drug labs aren't known for their quality control. So a lot of people die.

I agree with the point that this is just one more reason to stop the drug war. It's better to let people legally buy drugs that come with the kind of quality control that's motivated by legal responsibility for your product and brand management, and maybe even governmental oversight if the bureaucracy doesn't get defunded.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Itse

Fentanyl is cheap and easy to make and it's very potent in small quantities, which is in some ways convenient.

It just doesn't sell very well on it's own for good reason.

So you take a bunch of something that will sell like cocaine, cut it down until it's mostly creatine powder or whatever, and then add that cheap fentanyl for the kick. The financial reasons make perfect sense.

Of course since it's a so strong, rather small differences in quantity makes the difference between recreational use and overdose, and drug labs aren't known for their quality control. So a lot of people die.

I agree with the point that this is just one more reason to stop the drug war. It's better to let people legally buy drugs that come with the kind of quality control that's motivated by legal responsibility for your product and brand management, and maybe even governmental oversight if the bureaucracy doesn't get defunded.

I'm not on the side of legalizing for the sake of government making a buck or creating a safe environment for things. Cocaine and Heroin and such have very addictive qualities that create far reaching issues relating to addiction. These are the types of things that should be weeded out, not legitimized through legalization. At least that's my take.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by speede5

What's the gain for sellers to lace with Fent anyway? Is it just to get people more addicted to the product? Seems killing your clients is a bad business model.

Think of it like an enhancer. And as others have noticed, a little goes a long way, so adding a bit to whatever drug you're lacing it to will give the user a much, much more intense high.

[speede5]

Thanks I totally understand cutting coke down for profit just seems you would use cheaper stuff. I remember stories back in the day of scraping the powder out of flourescent tubes to cut it.

Fentanyl just seems like a odd choice unless a hint of it is going to make for a stronger addiction there doesn't seem to be a point.

I don't know how I feel about legalizing hard drugs, seeing how it destroys so many lives and having a family member blowing his whole life up with drugs right now I kinda swing towards the Duterte solution. Line up the dealers and one to the back of the head. (just the dealers though)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by cral12

This!

I'd encourage checking out the work of Dr. Carl Hart.

His latest book:
Drug Use For Grown-ups: Chasing Liberty In The Land Of Fear

He's been on a lot of podcasts as well.

Getting really OT here, but I totally agree with the harm reduction strategy as opposed to criminalizing drugs.

I think it should go even further though. I feel that modern pharmaceutical science should be doing more research and development into recreational drugs that are safer and have less addictive factors. As far as medicine and science has come in the past century or longer, recreational drugs are still archaic and dangerous. Humans have been trying to get high since the dawn of civilization. Heck, all primates do it, it's something in our curious nature. There is going to come a point that the fight to eradicate it becomes too exhausting and futile, if we already aren't at that point.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by fleury

I'm not on the side of legalizing for the sake of government making a buck or creating a safe environment for things. Cocaine and Heroin and such have very addictive qualities that create far reaching issues relating to addiction. These are the types of things that should be weeded out, not legitimized through legalization. At least that's my take.

Praytell, how do you think it will *ever* be weeded out? I'm in my late 20s now, I can't name a single personal acquaintance out of hundreds from school/work/familial relations offhand who I can say for sure has never experimented with several currently illegal drugs. Access has only grown in the information age, and with the weed sector being taken away from many dealers, they've made marketing and normalizing the more potent drugs a priority. I don't know what exactly making it illegal accomplishes in peoples minds, but they and you are absolutely delusional if you think it fetters access in any shape or manner. It's ####ing everywhere.

The bull#### scare tactics don't and won't ever work, if you want to stop these tragic unintentional overdoses you need to take the market away from the street dealers, educate people with the actual ####ing truth about these substances, what they do and the potential harm they can cause your body. And above all, regulate their production and sale. Normal people aren't going to start ripping lines at work just because it's made legal (or are we living back in 2017 where everyone was suddenly going to be high all the time once weed was legalized, oh the horrroorrrr). People with addiction problems aren't going to suddenly use more than they otherwise would have, but at least they won't be taking actual ####ing poison, and better education and rehabilitation programs can and should be funded with the proceeds of these sales.


-Signed a guy who has lost 5 friends to fentanyl

[SebC]

Originally Posted by speede5

I don't know how I feel about legalizing hard drugs, seeing how it destroys so many lives and having a family member blowing his whole life up with drugs right now [...]

Think of it this way: criminalization isn't stopping your family member from blowing his life up, but safe supply might keep him alive.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by fleury

I'm not on the side of legalizing for the sake of government making a buck or creating a safe environment for things. Cocaine and Heroin and such have very addictive qualities that create far reaching issues relating to addiction. These are the types of things that should be weeded out, not legitimized through legalization. At least that's my take.

That's fair, and I think if we ever actually get done to it, I do think some things are probably best to still keep as controlled substances.

However the government reaction to people abusing controlled substances for pleasure (or self medicating) should be treatment, not punishment.

There's also a lot of options between "legalize everything" and the current extremely dumb situation. Personally I would probably make cocaine somewhat legal, but I also recognize I'm not an expert on where the line would be best drawn.

I do believe the best way to weed out the worst stuff is to give people better options, and that the current drug laws do the opposite. The current drug laws push the drug industry and users towards hard and cheap drugs with poor quality control, such as the fentanyl laced cocaine that killed Jimmy Hayes.

Out of all the possible alcohol available, people mostly drink relatively mild drinks like beer and wine, and illegally made moonshine (which might have dangerous quality control issues) is not in any practical sense of the word even available for most people. (And when people do drink moonshine, it's mostly made by someone they know, not bought from a back alley dealer.)

I think the same could largely be true for other drugs. Legalize weed, some uppers and some psychedelics and that would probably cover most people's needs to a point which would destroy the profits of the illegal drugs industry, which is the only thing that can really destroy the otherwise deeply entrenched criminal organizations.