[Rumour] UPD: no deals for Flames before expansion draft roster freeze

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Sorry to be a broken record, but they do not deserve to be criticized for losing a player in the expansion draft. And they do not deserve to be criticized for not having won the draft lottery.

Some criticisms are just stupid no matter whom they are directed at.

Oh my goodness, man. You're a good poster, so please don't take this personally.

People are not upset that the Flames are losing a player. I think eveyone on the board recognizes that's inevitable. What an odd take it is to interpret people's comments in that way.

People are frustrated that the team has not improved at all, really, over his 7-year tenure, and arguabley has actually gotten worse over that time period, especially when you factor in not just on-ice performance, but overall organization health.

Treliving's track record is not awesome. He's fully earned the critical lens many posters are currently using to evaluate his work.

Of course none of us have his experience, and I'm also certain that none of us would do better, than he has done, but that's not the comparison that you or anyone else should be making (and I doubt many others are, BTW). Instead, we are comparing his track record to that of his peers, and when you do that, Treliving is found wanting on many fronts.

Team spends to the cap, missed the playoffs again this year, has won just one playoff round in the salary cap era, has depleted organizational depth, our "star" players are tier below that of most teams.......we're not in a good place.

As a result, every move or non-move is going to be viewed with a degree of suspicion. Not because we could do better, but because the organization needs to do better.

Obviously we are going to lose a player in the expansion draft, but how we lose that player could take several different directions, and not all of them are equal.

Today was an opportunity to move a valuable asset that wouldn't fit onto the protection list for some kind of return that would have been a net improvement compared to losing that asset for nothing. That didn't happen. That's disappointing, especially when several of Treliving's peers appeared to be able to do that today and leading up to today. Of course none of us know what that could have looked like, but several teams made such moves today, but not us.

So now the team is likely down to two options:

First, they can expend more assets and draft capital so that they can keep Giordano. That's not ideal because they don't have a lot of assets or draft capital that they can afford to move right now. This is being rumored as a possibility right now, so if people are critical of the idea, then that's valid, IMO, even though it hasn't actually happened and/or may not happen. This is a discussion board. We discuss these kinds of rumors or options.

Second, they can lose Giordano for nothing. This hasn't happened yet either, but again, perfectly fine for people to discuss it.

Best case scenario for managing this situation has likely come and gone. Now I'm hoping the team doesn't burn more assets to try to keep their 38 year-old captain, who was not there best defenseman last year.

Now the best case scenario, IMO, is that they lose Giordano for nothing, which isn't awesome either, because he clearly still has value.

When you consider all of the other assets lost for nothing, or effectively for nothing, over the last 7 years, and how depleted the organization is overall, and no playoffs once agian this past year, and a whole myriad of other failings on the part of Treliving and his staff, yeah - people are going to be critical.

But it's not because they are going to lose a player at the expansion draft.

[klikitiklik]

Originally Posted by Buff

He deservces criticism. He was building what many people thought to be a good team with a strong future. Now we have massive doubts. Treliving is the architect and we have a right to complain about what he has done.

What has become incredibly annoying is people turning every little bit of news into something to use as a complaint about Brad Treliviing.

Two teams make a trade and somebody will likely complain that Treliving didn't acquire on of the players in that trade.

Somebody will complain, years after the fact too, that Trelivign didn't draft somebody in the 4th round who turned out to be great.

Somebody will complain that Trelivigin didn't trade Giordano for a king's ransom when comparable trades suggest we'd all be upset with the return. If he did trade Giordano for a mediocre trade people will complain that he didn't get anything worth while. But the'll also complain if Gio is unprotected. They'll complain if he is claimed. If he isn't claimed they'll still complain about Gio being left unprotected even though he gets to stay in Flames silks.

Complain, complain complain. It's making this forum incredibly negative and hard to read.

Agreed. It does get tiring.

I do not agree with the over aggressive stomping out of any criticism as soon as it is said. Mockery of a posters' opinions, and what in MY opinion seems like aggressive attempts at intimidating people into not posting, is the last thing we want on an open discussion forum.

Am i wrong?

[Mattman]

The Flames not doing anything today makes me somewhat content and somewhat nervous.

Content because I don't think they protected Gio over Tanev, Hanifin, or Andersson and if they did they we would have seen a trade today.

Nervous because there's still a chance they protected him or they will try to swing a deal to avoid Gio being taken.

When do we find out the protection lists?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mattman

The Flames not doing anything today makes me somewhat content and somewhat nervous.

Content because I don't think they protected Gio over Tanev, Hanifin, or Andersson and if they did they we would have seen a trade today.

Nervous because there's still a chance they protected him or they will try to swing a deal to avoid Gio being taken.

When do we find out the protection lists?

Its sad that our GM doing absolutely nothing is somewhat satsifying.

He didnt do anything proactive! But he didnt make any mistakes either...

[TOfan]

^Brad Marsh

I won’t quote due to the length of your post, but you mention that Treliving missed an opportunity today to move Giordano for an asset opposed to loosing him for nothing.

What team was taking him and surrendering assets? How would that have affected their own protection list? If you’re surprised or disappointed it didn’t happen, you should probably give it some more thought. It was unlikely to happen.

[3rd Degree]

The Flames not moving Gio with salary retained was a massive missed opportunity. If they pay anything at all to have him not selected, then Tre needs to go. It would mean he clearly has a terrible vision. We went nowhere with the current band. Why would we pay to keep them together? It boggles the mind.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

The Flames not moving Gio with salary retained was a massive missed opportunity. If they pay anything at all to have him not selected, then Tre needs to go. It would mean he clearly has a terrible vision. We went nowhere with the current band. Why would we pay to keep them together? It boggles the mind.

What team was adding Giordano to their protection list? I’m really interested to know.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

No, the flames and/or treliving do not deserve all the criticism. Mainly because lots of it is stupid, pessimistic, and devoid of all reason, thought, intelligence or common sense. Some opinions and critiques are dumb. Far dumber than Treliving or the Flames have ever been.

The good criticism though, they/he deserves every bit of it.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Are people getting paid to insult me?

We gladly do it for free!

[Flames_22]

Another thing to remember is that they are losing a player no matter what, if you trade Gio for someone or a pick, you are going to lose someone else. Could have been Ryan or Kylington. The organization obviously thought the cap space was worth more than getting a later round draft pick and losing someone like Kylington or Phillips. Yes it sucks to lose Gio, but it’s not for nothing, you trade or protect him, you are losing someone else. To trade you need someone else who wants Gio, there aren’t many teams who have a protection spot open, and if they do they can pay pennies on the dollar because they are in complete control. Seattle may have been playing hard ball to begin with to try and get top dollar for extra protection spots, but again you have to lose someone, and sending high picks with someone like Kylington doesn’t seem worth it for 1 more year of Gio.

[Goriders]

Keep in mind. They might not take Gio.

He’s expensive and old.

[D as in David]

I'd love to be paid a nickel for every post stating Treliving needs to immediately be fired for something he never ends up doing.

[Mass_nerder]

Just glad we didn't spend assets to keep Gio.
I hope he doesn't get taken (partly because he's a calming presence on our blue line, but also because he could get a good return at the deadline next season when we ultimately miss the playoffs again).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Are people getting paid to insult me?

You mean that’s a paid position? Where does one apply?

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by TOfan

^Brad Marsh

I won’t quote due to the length of your post, but you mention that Treliving missed an opportunity today to move Giordano for an asset opposed to loosing him for nothing.

What team was taking him and surrendering assets? How would that have affected their own protection list? If you’re surprised or disappointed it didn’t happen, you should probably give it some more thought. It was unlikely to happen.

I didn't say moving Giordano today was the most likely outcome (I don't think it was), only that it was probably the most desirable outcome. So certainly not surprised, but probably disappointed to a degree.

I don't know who or what could have moved, or what partners were potentially out there, and I suppose at this point we will neve know for sure. And by the way I readily admit that there may not have been anything that would have moved the needle enough to pull the trigger. I also readily admit that Treliving didn't do anything today to make the team worse. And that if it turns out that we lose Giordano to expansion then that $6.75M in cap space creates a lot of intriguing options.......But having said all of that, here's what has happened over the last 72 hrs or so:

Leading up to the roster freeze, and in an effort to maxmize the value of assets, 17 different teams did make deals (some more than one deal). These deals moved 20 different players and 11 draft picks (by my quick count).

That's really all we have to go on, and one possible conclusion is that there were deals to make, multiple GMs making a variety of moves, and teams setting themsevles up for the expansion draft in various ways.

By no means were the Flames alone here, and as I said, no deals are better than bad deals, but the fact remains that today was an opporutnity for each team to optimize their expansion draft strategy, and what I would have considered to be the best case scenario for the Flames and Giordano didn't play out. That's all we really know for sure.

Look, I know there's a lot more to come this off-season, and so I'm not hitting panic buttons - not by any means - but leading up to the roster freeze was one of the windows that Treliving had to improve the team and or to maximize assets, and that window is closed now with no moves made.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Just glad we didn't spend assets to keep Gio.
I hope he doesn't get taken (partly because he's a calming presence on our blue line, but also because he could get a good return at the deadline next season when we ultimately miss the playoffs again).

Still can happen

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

What team was adding Giordano to their protection list? I’m really interested to know.

Last year at the deadline I think they could have found someone.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Are people getting paid to insult me?

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

We gladly do it for free!

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You mean that’s a paid position? Where does one apply?

Sorry, Lanny. Looks like you're SOL on this one.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I'd love to be paid a nickel for every post stating Treliving needs to immediately be fired for something he never ends up doing.

I dont think Treliving should be fired for he he hasn't, or never ended up doing, I think he should have been fired for the team he's built.

He's had 7 years and this is what we have and we are genuinely staring down another rebuild.

At this point I dont think theres any point in firing Treliving. That time has passed.

He's had more grace in selecting coaches than anyone in history. He's padded this team with more mid-to-crap goaltenders than I can count.

If we're going to rebuild we might as well let him do his thing. As long as that is the plan and the ethos.

If the idea is to do whatever it takes to cobble this group together somehow and make them Champions then more than just Treliving need to be shown the door.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

No, the flames and/or treliving do not deserve all the criticism. Mainly because lots of it is stupid, pessimistic, and devoid of all reason, thought, intelligence or common sense. Some opinions and critiques are dumb. Far dumber than Treliving or the Flames have ever been.

The good criticism though, they/he deserves every bit of it.

We need some sort of ranking system to determine which side of the line individual criticisms fall on.