Thanks afc. Yeah I just see the anti-Catholic stance as just faux concern angry white soy boy histrionics. Great way to avoid any real examination of this problem.
This is a collective Canadian sin. Your edgelord atheism is just lame and reflects your immediate experience as an atheist white Canadian, ignoring the diversity of people of faith.
In many ways, it is just another reflection of colonial paternalism.
That's why I wasn't specific when I originally said "religious people". All of this isn't about anything other than one group of people not being the same religion as another. IDGAF which specific religion did what, it's all laughable bull#### to me.
For those of you that havent seen it track down Rabbit Proof Fence, its a slightly sanitized version of Australia's equally grim system, 'we' did this anywhere 'we' rocked up to steal some poor tribes land, we saw them as animals and treated them as such, animals dont care about their children so you can just take them.
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 05-30-2021 at 04:03 PM.
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That's why I wasn't specific when I originally said "religious people". All of this isn't about anything other than one group of people not being the same religion as another. IDGAF which specific religion did what, it's all laughable bull#### to me.
Right, if this makes you more angry with “religious people’s,” than it does with the actual problem, there is something wrong with your point of view.
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That's why I wasn't specific when I originally said "religious people". All of this isn't about anything other than one group of people not being the same religion as another. IDGAF which specific religion did what, it's all laughable bull#### to me.
Plenty of non religious organizations were involved in other non native areas of residential care, basically anywhere we kept mentally handicapped, deaf, physically handicapped or youth custody centers there were these kinds of abuses, the residential school system allowed, by societies complete lack of concern for natives and the schools relative isolation, for worse abuses but anywhere we kept kids or even adults locked up this crap happened right up into the 90's
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I think the issue is absolutely a combination of how Canadians collectively ignore their own racism (both past and present) towards Indigenous people, as well as the institutionalized atrocities that the Catholic Church has gotten away with.
How we continue to give reverence towards an organization that has such a disgusting history when it comes to abuses against vulnerable people is hard to stomach IMO.
That being said, it's not dissimilar to how we as Canadians ignore our own ugly history. It's no doubt a large part of why there seems to be an ingrained racist attitude towards the Indigenous here that is just accepted at large, while at the same time we like to look down upon the US for their own racist issues.
The cognitive dissonance required to ignore what we know has happened to the vulnerable (and continues to happen) is embarrassing.
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I think the issue is absolutely a combination of how Canadians collectively ignore their own racism (both past and present) towards Indigenous people, as well as the institutionalized atrocities that the Catholic Church has gotten away with.
How we continue to give reverence towards an organization that has such a disgusting history when it comes to abuses against vulnerable people is hard to stomach IMO.
That being said, it's not dissimilar to how we as Canadians ignore our own ugly history. It's no doubt a large part of why there seems to be an ingrained racist attitude towards the Indigenous here that is just accepted at large, while at the same time we like to look down upon the US for their own racist issues.
The cognitive dissonance required to ignore what we know has happened to the vulnerable (and continues to happen) is embarrassing.
For more recent examples of atrocities that have been committed against our indigenous, there are the starlight tours.
The coles notes on them is that going back as early as the 1990s and even into the early 2000s, Saskatoon police officers would detain mostly intoxicated Indigenous males, take them out passed the city limits and leave them without their clothes in winter time.
I'm going off of memory here but I believe there was several incidents of this happening, resulting in death from hypothermia.
These things have happened during my lifetime which is mindblowing and full stop unacceptable.
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Sow doubt about the cause, like TB or whatever. Deflection, making excuses, etc.
But we don't know the cause. How can someone "sow doubt" about something that there's no certainty about to begin with? Not to mention that if in some cases they actually did die of TB, that doesn't "deflect blame" from the school. The school would almost certainly still be culpable.
What are you assuming the cause was? That the people operating the school strangled 215 children in their sleep?
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I would also like to make clear I am in no way defending the Catholic church, their behaviour across the world from the earliest days of the church has been nothing short of evil, that everything else mankind does is almost always equally evil doesnt excuse them for their history of genocide repression and abuse.
But Peter is right when he points out that blaming one organization or even religion as a whole is a dangerous mistake and absolves Canada when it was (and still is) Canada's innate racism that caused this and many other injustices and needs to be owned
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One of my foster kids (of Cree Objiwe heritage) stuck his head over my shoulder and read some if this thread, we have been discussing hanging some red dresses up on the tree outside my house in memory of the hundreds of murdered native women so these conversations are fairly common in my house right now, his one very mature comment was that none of you honour his lost brothers and sisters by being angry and shouting at each other
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But Peter is right when he points out that blaming one organization or even religion as a whole is a dangerous mistake and absolves Canada when it was (and still is) Canada's innate racism that caused this and many other injustices and needs to be owned
Even today I see and hear a dozen randos complain, yell, shake their heads, or mutter during something as simple as a land acknowledgement during a sports or cultural event. This ain't just about a few church goers. It's innate racism in a lot of families and a lot of people.
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Even today I see and hear a dozen randos complain, yell, shake their heads, or mutter during something as simple as a land acknowledgement during a sports or cultural event. This ain't just about a few church goers. It's innate racism in a lot of families and a lot of people.
God forbid a band doesn't want a road or railway or pipeline on their land as well!!!
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But we don't know the cause. How can someone "sow doubt" about something that there's no certainty about to begin with? Not to mention that if in some cases they actually did die of TB, that doesn't "deflect blame" from the school. The school would almost certainly still be culpable.
What are you assuming the cause was? That the people operating the school strangled 215 children in their sleep?
I don’t know why this is a hard concept to grasp. It seems pretty clear to me that the root cause is neglect and terrible conditions. It could have been TB, or the Spanish Flu, or whatever, but the reason why these things would have hit these schools especially hard is because of the conditions. It doesn’t matter what specific disease they may have died from, were that the cause, because we know the conditions they were in directly contributed to any cause of death, and they were buried in shallow unmarked graves.
People who are singularly focused on guessing at a disease that could have caused this are missing what’s important entirely.
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It doesn’t matter what specific disease they may have died from, were that the cause, because we know the conditions they were in directly contributed to any cause of death, and they were buried in shallow unmarked graves.
In which case, pointing out the type of disease that might have been at issue is not a matter of "deflecting blame" or "sowing doubt" about the cause, as was being suggested. So... thanks for agreeing with me I guess?
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I don’t know why this is a hard concept to grasp. It seems pretty clear to me that the root cause is neglect and terrible conditions. It could have been TB, or the Spanish Flu, or whatever, but the reason why these things would have hit these schools especially hard is because of the conditions. It doesn’t matter what specific disease they may have died from, were that the cause, because we know the conditions they were in directly contributed to any cause of death, and they were buried in shallow unmarked graves.
People who are singularly focused on guessing at a disease that could have caused this are missing what’s important entirely.
The why doesn't even really matter. Speculating on that isn't all that productive since we don't even know. What does matter is that it would appear their deaths were hidden, their families likely never knew for sure that they'd died until now. That's where the focus should be. These kids weren't afforded dignity in life, and they were erased in death.
Sow doubt about the cause, like TB or whatever. Deflection, making excuses, etc.
He asked why it's a bad look, I explained why.
Doubt about what? Deflecting from what?
People were speculating about how the children died. I referenced an article published that very day on the front page of a major Canadian newspaper headlined “Why so many children died at Indian Residential Schools”.
How is that a bad look?
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