Chucky on the Decline....

[Manhattanboy]

It certainly would be nice to know well in advance what his and JG's intentions are. Likely not hard to read the tea leaves however.

Absent some miracle run, this summer could be the biggest in the history of the franchise.

I would not be surprised to see JG, MT and SM moved. In many respects I would be disappointed but I am looking forward to the next chapter under Sutter.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by troutman

Didn't Tre say he has been talking to Darryl on and off for quite some time, and this was the first opportunity the timing worked out for everyone?

Yes...but you cant believe him cause it doesn't fit the narrative for the conspiracy being presented.

My guess that it was Darryl who decided to say yes after past offers didnt work out timing wise for him (and i will further guess is that it was because of COVID and Chris) but now with things getting under control he was comfortable with taking the plunge...and as we all know by now he does nothing half assed ever, so he waited for that time he knew he could devote everything.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

It certainly would be nice to know well in advance what his and JG's intentions are. Likely not hard to read the tea leaves however.

Absent some miracle run, this summer could be the biggest in the history of the franchise.

I would not be surprised to see JG, MT and SM moved. In many respects I would be disappointed but I am looking forward to the next chapter under Sutter.

as little as 3 weeks ago the Fan was reporting that JG had a strong interest in re-signing with the team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything: if Tkachuk accepts the 1 year, $9M QO for the 22/23 season, is he a UFA the following year? My guess is yes, and I suppose if Tkachuk does want out that's the quickest way to do it.

I don't think it is so much about "wanting out" as it is maximizing the value of his next contract. As a 25-year-old UFA he will be one of the most sought-after forwards on the open market. This is his focus.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes...but you cant believe him cause it doesn't fit the narrative for the conspiracy being presented.

My guess that it was Darryl who decided to say yes after past offers didnt work out timing wise for him (and i will further guess is that it was because of COVID and Chris) but now with things getting under control he was comfortable with taking the plunge...and as we all know by now he does nothing half assed ever, so he waited for that time he knew he could devote everything.

Agreed. I also think that the acquisition of Jacob Markstrom had a lot to do with the timing of Sutter's decision.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by 868904

What happens if the Flames don't offer a QO? Does he just sit out till a contract gets negotiated?

He becomes a UFA. So, either the Flames pay him 9M, or he goes UFA, or the Flames offer him something more desirable than he thinks he can get as a UFA and lock him up.

Unless he's playing at a level that's worth at least 9M per season at the end of this contract, he should basically be considered a UFA at the end of this deal.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

He becomes a UFA. So, either the Flames pay him 9M, or he goes UFA, or the Flames offer him something more desirable than he thinks he can get as a UFA and lock him up.

Unless he's playing at a level that's worth at least 9M per season at the end of this contract, he should basically be considered a UFA at the end of this deal.

Well...no.

Unless he has no desire to stay in Calgary, there is a very simple way to keep him.

Offer him what he believes market value is, but do so for a longer term than he is likely to get as UFA.

Don Meehan is his agent and the best in the business in understanding what will work for both client and team and is up front and honest about it with both.

No question that MT is positioned brilliantly to have leverage when the time comes, but that certainly does not mean its 9M or UFA.

Again though...that is some 14 or 15 months away....lots of time for BT to get that info, have a read on things here and make a decision.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Following up on Textcritic's comment, didn't Treliving also describe firing people one of the 'miserable' parts of the business? Treliving did what he had to do. It likely wasn't an enjoyable experience for him. Pretty sure Treliving is well aware that having to do this again is, in part, due to his own failings as well. Ward had to walk the plank, but the dirt is on the hands of the players, the coach, and the GM. It was a failing of the group. Not an individual.

So if Treliving wasn't publicly dancing on Ward's proverbial grave during the press conference maybe fans shouldn't be reading into his facial expressions?

Sometimes things are said here that really highlight the naivety fans can sometimes have.

Lol Spare me drivel about naivety. No idea why you and TC are fully set on defending a clearly uncomfortable man. And you can trace the moments Treliving gets uncomfortable. It's whenever future plans for the team or strategy are brought up. His disposition does become notably softer when speaking of ward as you mentioned.

Look in the mirror, oh naïve one, if you believe that this was ever Treliving's decision to make. He's made 3 of these decisions already and failed abjectly each time. He didnt get to make another one.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything: if Tkachuk accepts the 1 year, $9M QO for the 22/23 season, is he a UFA the following year? My guess is yes, and I suppose if Tkachuk does want out that's the quickest way to do it.

If he takes the one year QO...then they do it all again the next season. He is RFA until he has accrued 7 NHL seasons or age 25...which ever comes first IIRC.

[bubbsy]

Flames are definitely at a difficult time here in the team's direction.

- They have locked into a #1 goalie for 6years just this offseason.
- Gaudreau will be UFA after next season
- Tkachuk will be a RFA after next season
- Giordano is showing his age now, and will be a UFA after next season
- Monahan is a UFA in 2 seasons
- GM/coach contracts up in 2 seasons
- New building opens in 2024

This is a massive offseason for the flames. The one good news is that Treliving took the 'rookie coach' variable out of the equation when judging this season's team and individual player results, this coming offseason.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lol Spare me drivel about naivety. No idea why you and TC are fully set on defending a clearly uncomfortable man. And you can trace the moments Treliving gets uncomfortable. It's whenever future plans for the team or strategy are brought up. His disposition does become notably softer when speaking of ward as you mentioned.

Fo my part, it is not about defending Treliving, but moreso about countering the tendency of a number of posters to psychologise, or to construct entire narratives from the most unreliable bits of data like facial expressions, demeanour, patterns of speech and the like sort.

Look in the mirror, oh naïve one, if you believe that this was ever Treliving's decision to make. He's made 3 of these decisions already and failed abjectly each time. He didnt get to make another one.

More assertions. More unsubstantiated claims in a near vacuum of evidence. My standards for research are a little more robust.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If he takes the one year QO...then they do it all again the next season. He is RFA until he has accrued 7 NHL seasons or age 25...which ever comes first IIRC.

Tkachuk's seventh season will be 2022-23. If he accepts his one-year QO next year, then he will be a UFA once it expires.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames are definitely at a difficult time here in the team's direction.

- They have locked into a #1 goalie for 6years just this offseason.
- Gaudreau will be UFA after next season
- Tkachuk will be a UFA after next season
- Giordano is showing his age now, and will be a UFA after next season
- Monahan is a UFA in 2 seasons
- GM/coach contracts up in 2 seasons
- New building opens in 2024

This is a massive offseason for the flames. The one good news is that Treliving took the 'rookie coach' variable out of the equation when judging this season's team and individual player results, this coming offseason.

Tkachuk will not become a UFA until at least 2023. He will still be a RFA after next season.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well...no.

Unless he has no desire to stay in Calgary, there is a very simple way to keep him.

Offer him what he believes market value is, but do so for a longer term than he is likely to get as UFA.

Don Meehan is his agent and the best in the business in understanding what will work for both client and team and is up front and honest about it with both.

No question that MT is positioned brilliantly to have leverage when the time comes, but that certainly does not mean its 9M or UFA.

Again though...that is some 14 or 15 months away....lots of time for BT to get that info, have a read on things here and make a decision.

Uh, having to pay whatever he feels is satisfactory to get him signed in Calgary pretty much is treating him like a UFA. It's still a matter of having to make a better offer than he believes he'll get from anywhere else that he would prefer to play.

If he doesn't like the offer from the Flames, and the Flames don't pay him 9M, he's UFA. The only difference is that he doesn't actually know what the other offers on the table are until the Flames refuse to offer 9M.

Pretty easy choice for MT. It's basically “Either pay me 9M, or you need to outbid the market”. Sure, he's not technically UFA at the end of this deal, but he might as well be.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Tkachuk will not become a UFA until at least 2023. He will still be a RFA after next season.

Oops, fixed.

Doesn't really change the narrative. This summer is a massive offseason in shaping this team's direction for the next few years.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lol Spare me drivel about naivety. No idea why you and TC are fully set on defending a clearly uncomfortable man. And you can trace the moments Treliving gets uncomfortable. It's whenever future plans for the team or strategy are brought up. His disposition does become notably softer when speaking of ward as you mentioned.

Look in the mirror, oh naïve one, if you believe that this was ever Treliving's decision to make. He's made 3 of these decisions already and failed abjectly each time. He didnt get to make another one.

bolded part, you don't know if it was Treliving's decision or not. I hope you understand and know the difference between opinion and fact. If it is a fact the owners made the hire without Treliving's involvement, go ahead and prove me wrong. If you can't, there's not much else to be discussed here.

Personally, I find it hard to believe Treliving didn't have his hands all over the hire and I would also bet the ownership was also involved too. I don't believe that this was a decision taken out of Treliving's hands and there is nothing to support that argument so much so that posters are clinging to ridiculous claims of 'you can tell by looking at his face'........are we adults or kids at the Jr. High lunch table? this assertion that the owners hired Sutter while pushing Treliving aside is complete and utter nonsense and the rationale behind it is even worse.

If the decision was made by the owners without Treliving, then what the hell is going on? Why is Treliving still the GM? Why would the Calgary Flames allow him to continue to have access to confidential information and decision making authority? If the owners have lost confidence in Treliving then what benefit is there to them to keep him in place? On the flip side, why would Treliving choose to stay?

If you have a chance, read the interview with Treliving and Haley Salvian that was posted last night in The Athletic. It was a 30min interview. Now none of us were there to 'read Treliving's face' but based on what was recorded, it certainly sounds like a GM who had as much involvement as anyone in hiring Sutter.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Let's try this on for size.

In the space of the last few dozen posts we have now seen five possible explanations for why Treliving "looked uncomfortable" during his press conference with Darryl Sutter:

· Treliving was extremely tired after a multi-day marathon to replace his coach mid-season
· Treliving felt very awkward on a zoom call being broadcast city-wide and across the internet with the camera squarely set on him through long periods of silence while Sutter answered questions
· Treliving is bitter and embarrassed about being forced by ownership to hire Sutter, a decision he never would have made on his own
· Treliving was very upset about having to fire Geoff Ward—a man he appears to sincerely care about and deeply respect—only hours before the PC began
· Treliving is angry about his team's performance, and very frustrated with several of the core players on the team

Based on everything that we know, which of these is most likely?

Included in “everything we know” is what he actually said in the presser. That he was happy to get Sutter, that “it wasn’t all on Ward” (meaning a lot was), that the players needed to step up, etc.

I mean, you can always say he’s lying, but in that case, let’s forgo questions and just take a picture of his face and go by that.

[Stanley]

Chucky hasen't been the same since the puck flip incident and the rumoured "tone it down" from his ######bag teammates...seriously who the F tells a guy to "tone it down"...I mean sure, pick your spots, fine I get that, but ffs he is NOT the problem here, it's the other complacent country club attitudes that are...

I miss him getting involved and being a sh*t disturber....we need you back Chuck

[MacDaddy77]

^^ exactly, the response should have been F'in rights Chucky, lets turn it up

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Chucky hasen't been the same since the puck flip incident and the rumoured "tone it down" from his ######bag teammates...seriously who the F tells a guy to "tone it down"...I mean sure, pick your spots, fine I get that, but ffs he is NOT the problem here, it's the other complacent country club attitudes that are...

I miss him getting involved and being a sh*t disturber....we need you back Chuck

Totally agree. Rhett Warrener’s take was similar. He also said that if it was Tkachuk complaining that no one was standing up for him, he needs to fight his own battles too. But telling him to tone it down was pretty lame and indicates some of the players expect things to come easy.