Election!

[Resolute 14]

I thought Martin said that the difference between the Libs and the Conservatives was that the Conservatives would be running a negative campaign because they have no positive vision for Canada, while the Liberals would be above that?

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Election...30012-sun.html

Does Martin even have any vision for Canada?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Wonder where that stat has been before the last couple campaigns.

17% could be huge in a lot of ridings. Tough to say if its a little or a lot.

One would have to see the breakdown between battleground provinces as well.

I would be willing to bet that the undecided vote in Alberta and Quebec is much lower than BC and parts of Ontario.

[CaptainCrunch]

I've set up an office pool on when the whole talk of a dark and evil hidden agenda will come up, I've bet on Friday.

Martin won't come up with a single policy platform until he can steal it from somebody else.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Hakan

It's called trying to do the most for your constituents. Which the NDP did in spades. If that is being a twit then no wonder you would support the Conservatives.

Sure, when the NDP flipflops you call it doing the most for your constituents. When Conservatives stick to their guns about their constituent's beliefs you call them rednecks/politically incorrect/not sensitive enough to 3000 couples in a country of 30 million. But hey, whatever makes you sleep better at night about voting in a bunch of crooks and commies who steals, cheat and lie to hardworking Canadians. I respect people who vote for crooks about as much as I respect these crooks who always have their hand in our damn pockets to create their record surpluses for their private jets and golf courses and $5000 dinners and $1 million European excursion and Juicy Fruit chewing gum.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I've set up an office pool on when the whole talk of a dark and evil hidden agenda will come up, I've bet on Friday.

Martin won't come up with a single policy platform until he can steal it from somebody else.

Saying nothing while attacking what the other guy says often works for the Liberals.

They're pretty clever that way. You may not like it, but it gets them elected. Its also a condemnation of the average Canadian voter.

Cowperson

[Lurch]

Saying nothing while attacking what the other guy says often works for the Liberals.

They're pretty clever that way. You may not like it, but it gets them elected. Its also a condemnation of the average Canadian voter.

Do you honestly feel that the cons are any different? Further, I think the general attitude by the political right in Alberta (or at least on this board and among people I talk to) is fueling the seeds of another Liberal victory. Very few of the great unwashed respond to the idea that failing to vote Conservative is indicative of stupidity, and this belief is endemic among the right's supporters. As a Green guy, I don't feel the need to suggest anyone that fails to support my view is brainwashed, stupid, or otherwise less informed than me. Just b/c you "walk in the Conservative light" doesn't mean any other choice is less informed or valid.

Personally, I think, quite simply, the Conservatives will never form the government while they retain the stench of the Reform. The Reform party created a lot of Green and Liberal supporters from the remnants of the old PC party (of which I was actually a paid member at one time). While I don't personally mind Harper, I do mind a large number of his MP's that need to go before the party can move forward. Best thing that the Conservative party could do would be to spin off the lunatic fringe and give them their own party along the lines of the provincial Tories and the Alberta Alliance. The Liberals are seen as centrist b/c their natural lunatic fringe spun off into the NDP - if you want to be seen as a moderate right choice by the majority, found the New Fascist Party where the 10% of clowns doing 99% of the damage for the Conservatives can be happy.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Do you honestly feel that the cons are any different?

When the Liberals say it, however, it sticks because people generally have a pre-conceived image of the principled opponent.

The Liberals generally stand for nothing other than the convenience of the moment, waffling between modestly left of centre and right of centre, depending on the mood of the nation . . . . therefore nothing sticks.

Being principled doesn't pay. . . . . standing still just makes you a better target.

Again, not defending it. In fact, I would condemn it. But I would more appropriately condemn the suckers who would fall for it every time, the common voter.

I haven't made up my mind who I will vote for. If this were America, I'd be a Democrat but I would be placed moderately right of center in Canada.

Personally, I think, quite simply, the Conservatives will never form the government while they retain the stench of the Reform.

As I've said often here myself. I think we'll see a minority Liberal government, the replacement of Harper with a moderate and another election in another year and a half or so . . . . and then we might have finally cleared the air.

Cowperson

[Lurch]

I'm not even sure it's Harper that needs to go. What he needs to do is grow a pair and toss a few of his MP's when they open their extremist mouths. Like it or not, when you are the outer boundary party it only takes a few mouthpieces to convince the electorate where the heart of your party is at. Liberals have more than their fair share of idiots in Parliament, but as Cowperson pointed out, they are the consumate ruling party that drifts with the mythical median voter and have no fears of being branded extremist.

[RougeUnderoos]

Our big election made the Daily Show last night. Funny stuff.

HOSED

[duncan]

You have hit the nail on the head Cow, that is probably why they keep sweeping the Maritimes and North, and how they keep winning. They aren't extreme in any way, and know enough to promote that. They play the NDP as extreme Left wing fanatics, bent on killing big business and taxing people to death. They play the Conservatives as Elitist Right wing crazies, bent on squashing the middle and lower classes, feeding the wealthy, and depleting services. Then they waft from side to side near the middle, appeasing big business and the wealthy with P2P health systems, and special interest groups with other legistlation, but not really doing much for anyone or enough to really anger anyone. The NDP can't make them look more Right than the Tories, and the Conservatives can't make them look more Left than the NDP.
In the States, the Republicans can push the Democrats as weak on crime, hard on industry, etc, and sway center sitting Democrats to vote against their traditional line. The Democrats run a campaign that the Republicans are war-mongerers, anti-middle class etc, and may sway younger, soft line Republicans. There is no fence sitting party, waiting to eat up dissidents from the two poles. Here, the Liberals survive by pushing the other parties further from the middle. Clever, weak and spineless, but clever.

[HOZ]

Rick Mercer's Blog...just to start things off right.

http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/

[Shawnski]

Duncan, welcome to politics.

Truth be known, no party in Canada is "extreme" in any way, shape or form. I laugh at anyone that categorizes them that way. There is no extreme... there isn't even a "strong" version of either wing.

Canada is centralist in nature. No singular government will swing the country way off center. That again is something I laugh at all the time.

Many "new" votes think a vote for CPC is like jumping into hell in damnation... sorry, it takes a few governments in a row to effectively change the direction of a country. And after a few CPC goverments you might not be so concerned about the direction taken. But now that we have had a few Liberal governments, the direction is clear.... privilege.... corruption.... waste....

Welcome to getting older and wiser all.....

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Canada is centralist in nature. No singular government will swing the country way off center. That again is something I laugh at all the time.

Many "new" votes think a vote for CPC is like jumping into hell in damnation... sorry

I agree with this, but I hope you also laugh when people call the NDP communists. The right wing labels the left as being extreme just as much as the left labeling the right. Both push each other further from the truth.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Duncan, welcome to politics.

Truth be known, no party in Canada is "extreme" in any way, shape or form. I laugh at anyone that categorizes them that way. There is no extreme... there isn't even a "strong" version of either wing.

Canada is centralist in nature. No singular government will swing the country way off center. That again is something I laugh at all the time.

Many "new" votes think a vote for CPC is like jumping into hell in damnation... sorry, it takes a few governments in a row to effectively change the direction of a country. And after a few CPC goverments you might not be so concerned about the direction taken. But now that we have had a few Liberal governments, the direction is clear.... privilege.... corruption.... waste....

Welcome to getting older and wiser all.....

Unfortunately I'm not a new voter, but I can read.

"Most Canadians profess to be of the Christian faith and I think we need to be sensitive to the fact it bothers Christians when the name of Jesus Christ is used in a blasphemous way."
- Conservative Foreign Affairs critic Stockwell Day on the need to ban or censor Of Mice and Men in public schools, Red Deer Advocate, March 24, 1994. This happened in the middle of national Freedom to Read Week.

That extreme enough for ya? This yoyo would be a Cabinet minister ferchrissakes. Of course if you agree with him, he doesn't look extremist at all. Do you?


"[Honouring Nelson Mendela is a] total political-correctness poster-boy thing... He was a Communist. He was a terrorist... The Liberals always deprive us unanimous consent on all sorts of provisions. They wouldn't allow us to honour the Duke of Edinburgh and the Queen with regard to their wedding anniversary..."
- Conservative MP Rob Anders, explaining why he voted against a resolution to make former South African president Nelson Mendela an honourary Canadian citizen, June 6th, 2001.

Can't forget local favorite Rob Anders. His hero is Joseph McCarthy. Anders spends the bulk of his time keeping Soviet subs out of the Glenmore Reservoir.

Extremism, Shawnski, is in the eye of the beholder.

[CaptainCrunch]

c'mon Rouge, there are equally extreme members in the Liberal party, but they seem to be getting a free ride here. If your going to damn the conservatives for some of thier admittedly extreme and stupid members, shouldn't you be condemming the Liberals?

Maybe I could defend my conservatism by saying I would never vote for a Party that accuses the West of rampant racism, or a party that stomps all over a doll that represents the President of our largest trading partner and one of our closest friends.

Fair is fair.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Maybe I could defend my conservatism by saying I would never vote for a Party that accuses the West of rampant racism, or a party that stomps all over a doll that represents the President of our largest trading partner and one of our closest friends.

You could do that and you would have a good point. Parrish and Fry are a couple of real ninnies. Parrish is out though, and Fry is a nobody and I hope she has the distinction of losing to the first MP from the Green Party.

Day, on the other hand, is in like Flynn. As things stand he'd be first in line for the Minister of Foreign Affairs position. As a former military man, would you be able to sleep at night knowing that this buffoon is making the decisions?

Say what you will about the Liberals, they've never had such an unqualified clown as this guy deciding foreign policy. Guys like him on the other side of the aisle are trusted to pound on the desk at the right time and that's about it.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You could do that and you would have a good point. Parrish and Fry are a couple of real ninnies. Parrish is out though, and Fry is a nobody and I hope she has the distinction of losing to the first MP from the Green Party.

Day, on the other hand, is in like Flynn. As things stand he'd be first in line for the Minister of Foreign Affairs position. As a former military man, would you be able to sleep at night knowing that this buffoon is making the decisions?

Say what you will about the Liberals, they've never had such an unqualified clown as this guy deciding foreign policy. Guys like him on the other side of the aisle are trusted to pound on the desk at the right time and that's about it.

So you'd rather have a PM known to sign blank cheques than a foreign affairs guy who believes in God? I mean really, what does that have to do with foreign affairs? So the guy will pat a few people on the back, shake some hands, and tell us we should be nicer and love everyone.

Really. Think about that. Foreign Affairs Minister is the guy in charge of... foreign affairs. Relations with other states. Not the Minister of Defense who makes the decisions about war. You may have the two confused.

On the other hand, you're willing to give the guy who signs blank cheques the right to sign them all? AACK!

[RougeUnderoos]

Is this a joke?

The Foreign Affairs Honcho's job involves a little more than patting people on the back. Look it up. It's kind of a big deal.

After you look that up, check this out

http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html

She's the American equivalent of Minister of Foreign Affairs. Do you think they hired her to pose for pictures and tell everyone that she loves them? I don't.

That woman would and will turn Stockwell Day into a pretzel in about 5 seconds if given the chance. It's got nothing to do with believing in God. Its got everything to do with Stockwell Day being a moron.

[Shawnski]

So let's get this straight, Rouge. Your two worst case examples of CPC "extremism" are about a book, and an opinion on giving unanimous consent on a motion..... Pretty weak examples of extremism compared to:

A senior Iranian cleric has called for all university professors to undergo Islamic training by the clergy.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=4668

"Our enemies have to know that the Iranian people will develop their nuclear technology to the limit" - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

http://framehosting.dowjonesnews.com/sample/samplestory.asp?StoryID=2005113013000109&Take=1

And countless others from regimes around the world. Now which scare you more? On what basis is any party in Canada considered extreme? From my perspective, they all are just playing around in a wading pool compared to the extremists that swim in oceans outside our borders.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You could do that and you would have a good point. Parrish and Fry are a couple of real ninnies. Parrish is out though, and Fry is a nobody and I hope she has the distinction of losing to the first MP from the Green Party.

Day, on the other hand, is in like Flynn. As things stand he'd be first in line for the Minister of Foreign Affairs position. As a former military man, would you be able to sleep at night knowing that this buffoon is making the decisions?

Say what you will about the Liberals, they've never had such an unqualified clown as this guy deciding foreign policy. Guys like him on the other side of the aisle are trusted to pound on the desk at the right time and that's about it.

Valid, however I have bery little affection for the current (former) foreign affairs minister, as I think he is somebody that you could class as a ninny. The problem to me is that too many people are condemming a man based upon his religious beliefs for example, and isn't that counter to the charter and rather un-Canadian like? Is he qualified for the job, actually are any of these guys qualified for the jobs that they get, and I'm talking both sides of the floor? In the rare instance sure, however looking at Bill Grahame when he was appointed as the Minister of National Defense, the guy had 0 qualifications for it and 0 knowledge and yet he was appointed to a critical post and promptly failed badly and utterly. Dosanjh or however you spell his name was a mill worker and a political science student who was appointed to the Minister in charge of health care, how did he qualify for that role, was it his understanding of hospital and health care policy or the fact that he was a rare Western Liberal MP?

Come on saying things like putting Stockwell Day into the role of foreign affairs minister keeps me up at night is akin to me saying that 76% of the Liberal appointee's were woefully underqualified for thier roles, its neither here nor there, your never appointed based on your skill or your beliefs, your appointed based on your riding and how low you can bow in front of your party leader. Its a sad indictment on the Canadian or any political system.

Sorry just ranting, I'm sick and over medicated.