Canada Should Not Participate in the 2022 Winter Olympics

[Snuffleupagus]

A real leader would play hardball, cut off diplomatic relations and seize everything in our nation owned by China.

Hey, maybe we would get lucky and they would declare war on us and NATO would be forced to crush them.

[CaptainCrunch]

I heard an interesting thought that Canada should spearhead a addition to Article 5 that would add in cyber attacks and economic attacks and things like the arbitrary kidnapping of citizens, which would force the Nato Allies to be able to force a kick fast acting coalition in terms of economic and diplomatic sanctioning.

[JohnnyB]

Personally, I don't have any issue with Canada choosing not to participate in the Olympics, though I do think it would suck for the athletes and that athletes who would like to participate should still be able to do so under the IOC flag or something instead of the Canadian flag. Sovereign countries should make their own decisions according to their values and priorities. Ideally, I think athletes should be able to do the same too if they're willing to go without support from their home country.

There are some pretty crazy posts on CP recently regarding China though. Some quite hateful. Others quite ignorant. A few are both. When I read things like this, it makes me concerned that people have such limited understandings and perspectives:

China is an awful, horror show of a country

####ty countries like China

This is essentially like a Jihadist group

They are just scum.

Meng should be on a one way plane to Guantanamo

Lets show some true courage, go in to the belly of the beast and mock these criminals during their own event.

A real leader would play hardball, cut off diplomatic relations and seize everything in our nation owned by China.

Hey, maybe we would get lucky and they would declare war on us and NATO would be forced to crush them.

Xi is starting to get reckless, and there is a year to go, any sort of mass casualty or major attack on infrastructure would make it a sure thing.

If our guys are still rotting in Chinese prisons and we send a team it will represent one of the lowest points in the history of this country and no I’m not exaggerating.

I suspect some of the people quoted here only get exposure to the worst sides of China through the media they consume and that it is framed from a perspective that amplifies sentiments of fear and distrust. I'm not defending or dismissing genocide, but a country shouldn't just be defined only by the worst things it does.

Again, I think it's totally okay and appropriate for Canada not to go to the Olympics as a form of moral protest in alignment with Canadian values, but posts that express a desire to see Meng sent to Guantanamo or for Nato to crush China in a war are in themselves also pretty horrific betrayals of supposed Canadian moral values. If Canada does choose to attend these Olympics, it will also be far, far from one of the lowest points in Canadian history.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

There are some pretty crazy posts on CP recently regarding China though. Some quite hateful. Others quite ignorant. A few are both. When I read things like this, it makes me concerned that people have such limited understandings and perspectives:

I suspect some of the people quoted here only get exposure to the worst sides of China through the media they consume and that it is framed from a perspective that amplifies sentiments of fear and distrust. I'm not defending or dismissing genocide, but a country shouldn't just be defined only by the worst things it does.

Are you implying fake news?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Are you implying fake news?

In the case of a post such as yours, suggesting that Canada should seize Chinese assets and hope for NATO to collectively crush China in a war, I certainly hope it's based on fake or biased sources of info. If it isn't, then you've revealed a pretty awful side of yourself.

[Flamenspiel]

A lot of people are concerned about the direction Xi has taken, including security commentators. I don’t think you should minimize or invalidate that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm not defending or dismissing genocide, but a country shouldn't just be defined only by the worst things it does.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

In the case of a post such as yours, suggesting that Canada should seize Chinese assets and hope for NATO to collectively crush China in a war, I certainly hope it's based on fake or biased sources of info. If it isn't, then you've revealed a pretty awful side of yourself.

I'm suggesting playing hardball, It would be up to China to decide how to handle the pressure, if they want to commit suicide they would declare war.

What would the USA do if the two Michaels were American? Not that it matters much as Xi wouldn't have the balls to kidnap innocent Americans

[Manhattanboy]

Johnny B surely you cannot defend the actions of the Chinese government in respect of which this thread was started.

Not only should Canada not participate, the IOC should relocate the games.

[zamler]

In those quotes people are talking about the government not the public at large.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I suspect some of the people quoted here only get exposure to the worst sides of China through the media they consume and that it is framed from a perspective that amplifies sentiments of fear and distrust. I'm not defending or dismissing genocide, but a country shouldn't just be defined only by the worst things it does.
.

I'm sorry there isn't a world isn't he multiverse that China isn't a #### hole. I want to be clear, I feel sorry for the Chinese people that they have had to leave for so many years under this regime.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't think it would make us look strong. It would make us look like pouty little bitches.

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Would you attend a party thrown by a gang that kidnapped your son/brother and refuses to let him go? While they still have him chained in a concrete room ####ting trough a hole in the floor? Serious question.

China would likely be happy if we didn't go. Canada performs well in the winter Olympics. Our absence would give China more opportunities for medals, which I'm sure would please them.

Also, after a brief mention or two in the opening ceremonies, our absence would be irrelevant. Everyone would have fun without us, and we'd be on the sidelines looking like whiners.

So, would I go to a party that kidnapped my family member? Yes, if it gave me even the slightest chance of an opportunity to massage the relations to a point where I had a chance of getting them back. Not going wouldn't help at all, so that would be really dumb to stay away.

The Olympics and the Michaels are not connected, anyway. The Michaels are going to stay in China as long as we/USA have Meng Wanzhoug.

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Sorry, you guys are right. Lets do nothing over China kidnaping our citizens at will. As long as I can get a fairly cheep iPhone.

It goes far beyond luxury goods. Not sure if you know anybody in manufacturing right now, but we're dependent on China to compete. Before I started having China do some of my manufacturing, I was bleeding customers to the USA at an insane rate. Shipping something from Texas to Calgary is nothing anymore. It's easy. If people can't find something cheap here, they beep-boop a couple words into Google and have the cheaper item sent to their door. Canadian manufacturers need the lower prices of Chinese goods.

Principled stands are all well and good, but there's no way it's worth nuking a segment of our economy by cutting out China when it won't help our cause. So long as we keep Wanzhoug, they will keep the Michaels. What else can they do? Plus, they've actually gone light on us with that. She's a way bigger player than those guys are. China has the power to inflict much more damage on us as retaliation than they have. Let's count our blessings on this one.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

A real leader would play hardball, cut off diplomatic relations and seize everything in our nation owned by China.

Hey, maybe we would get lucky and they would declare war on us and NATO would be forced to crush them.

lol, are you joking around?

Have you seen how war goes down? Western forces are still fataing around in Afghanistan - a fourth world stone-age ####hole - 20 years later. Same with Iraq. You think China won't pose a bigger challenge? You think this is worth going to a world war over?

Give your head a shake. That's an asinine take.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

-snip-
It goes far beyond luxury goods. Not sure if you know anybody in manufacturing right now, but we're dependent on China to compete. Before I started having China do some of my manufacturing, I was bleeding customers to the USA at an insane rate. Shipping something from Texas to Calgary is nothing anymore. It's easy. If people can't find something cheap here, they beep-boop a couple words into Google and have the cheaper item sent to their door. Canadian manufacturers need the lower prices of Chinese goods.

Principled stands are all well and good, but there's no way it's worth nuking a segment of our economy by cutting out China when it won't help our cause. So long as we keep Wanzhoug, they will keep the Michaels. What else can they do? Plus, they've actually gone light on us with that. She's a way bigger player than those guys are. China has the power to inflict much more damage on us as retaliation than they have. Let's count our blessings on this one.

Ideally we'd work on expanding our influence in central America to help get their economies going, and have them expand manufacturing. I'd feel much better about dollars going south than to China. It would have the added benefit of reducing their need to escape poor conditions through illegal immigration. I'm not sure why we lack any direction in working with countries that would be mutually beneficial like this.

[BMStrikesAgain]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Western forces are still fataing around in Afghanistan - a fourth world stone-age ####hole - 20 years later.

calm down eh

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

A real leader would play hardball, cut off diplomatic relations and seize everything in our nation owned by China.

Hey, maybe we would get lucky and they would declare war on us and NATO would be forced to crush them.

Real life's not a video game. If there ever was war with China (and there never will be), the world's pretty much toast. The nuclear fallout from that won't be pretty for anyone.

The time of actual conventional physical confrontation between two superpowers are over. There's just way too much at stake for both sides for that to ever happen. Instead, you'll get all this information espionage and economic disputes.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ideally we'd work on expanding our influence in central America to help get their economies going, and have them expand manufacturing. I'd feel much better about dollars going south than to China. It would have the added benefit of reducing their need to escape poor conditions through illegal immigration. I'm not sure why we lack any direction in working with countries that would be mutually beneficial like this.

That'd be awesome.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I am completely opposed to genocide, regardless of which country it takes place in. I also don't think a country is defined just by the worst things that it does. Canada was still engaged in genocide at the time of the '88 games and when most of the posters on CP were growing up here, including me. That is horrific. I can recognize that is horrific and also recognize that there are many other sides to the country, many of which are wonderful. So, yeah, I think defining a country only by the worst things that it does isn't the right way to go. The world isn't just made up of good and evil, or good guys and bad guys. It's a messy, complex place where horror and beauty co-exist, overlap and intertwine. One of my heroes throughout my adult life has been Romeo Dallaire. He has called for Canada to boycott as a moral obligation, and I respect that. He is also someone who experienced a truly brutal genocide from the closest perspective, and still deeply loved the country where it took place and saw so much good there. He also struggled terribly with the haughty sense of superiority combined with actual moral disengagement with overseas realities that he saw in Canada after he returned.

Despite valid criticism and objection to some things that China is engaged in, the country has arguably also done more to improve the global average standard of living than any other country on earth over the last 20+ years. Chinese governance has been a major factor in that too, and continues to be a major factor in how China can continue contributing to the improvement of global quality of life in future.

Countries should be judged for the worst things they do, but they're not defined by those terrible things alone. I've been very critical of China on deserving issues as well, but I don't let those issues define everything about the country in my eyes. The world is not just black and white. The story of China as a modern world power is still far from finished being written.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I'm sorry there isn't a world isn't he multiverse that China isn't a #### hole. I want to be clear, I feel sorry for the Chinese people that they have had to leave for so many years under this regime.

That is just an ignorant and stupid thing to say. Go to China and have some conversations with people who live there and have travelled the world. Ask them if they think China is a #### hole that you should feel sorry for them having to live in.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Real life's not a video game. If there ever was war with China (and there never will be), the world's pretty much toast. The nuclear fallout from that won't be pretty for anyone.

The time of actual conventional physical confrontation between two superpowers are over. There's just way too much at stake for both sides for that to ever happen. Instead, you'll get all this information espionage and economic disputes.

The last thing we would want is a war in Asia, the supply lines are too long for the main parties on the Western side, and Taiwan and Japan would bear the burnt of it.


From a naval perspective the PLAN wouldn't last all that long in a blue water engagement, but drawing them out from the umbrella of advanced Chinese anti-ship missiles would be impossible. Similarly the PLAA would probably not do all that well in an air war against the American's.



But where would it go from there? You're not going to win any kind of invasion as the PLA is massive, and the Chinese have spent a ton of money on upgrading its capabilities. If you decide to bust Chinese cities, to what effect? Taiwan and Japan at the very least vanish. Even in a conventional War its likely that if China does win, they snatch up as many of the strategic resources as they can (Oil Fields in the China seas). As well China can choke off the American's and others in terms of strategic resources.



The war that needs to be fought with China is with spreadsheets and quickbooks. That requires the Americans to clamp down.


However Canada needs to stop sending infrastructure Dollars or any other kind of funding to China or its businesses, and send that money to China's competitors in the area to encourage them to take advantage of a Canada's open for your business and will help you supplant Chinese goods.



There needs to be a lot of trade reformation in trade agreements with China, and that needs to have America and the other large partners on board. Trade with China has never really met trade. In terms of consumer goods or finished goods going into China its an extremely closed off market place. However China has an expectation that everyone should accept their goods without conditions. Also China still leads the world in industrial espionage and stealing patents.



You want to hurt China, its on the balance sheet, its demanding that trade means trade and you're markets have to open way up. It also means that China has to do a better job in terms of things like shipping out opiods from their little labs under the eyes of their Military and clamp down on their hacking and espionage.



And Canada needs to build a coalition around that, and push the American's on that. China still has a huge need for hard currency, they're spending a ton of their military, and intelligence gathering.



Sorry for the long post. But China is a bully, there's no other description of it. Smack them on the nose now, or regret it later. And yeah, China will retaliate, but its no different from how they're doing business now anyways.