The Brain Drain Thread

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I love the neighbourhoods in the original city of Toronto - miss living in the Beach and on Avenue road. The burbs are hell on earth IMO - not enough amenities and brutal traffic. I hate the humidity which is one big reason not to go back. Between that and the grey, rainy winters in BC that make me almost suicidal, Calgary actually has the 'best' weather for me aside as odd as that sounds. Really, though, every place has 3 months you don't want to be there so there are more options for retirement.

When you look at Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, all 3 cities suck to be in weather-wise from Nov-Feb. Where the latter two get a leg up is actually getting spring, while Calgary is stuck with #### weather until mid-May most years

[Flamenspiel]

Toronto requires an air conditioned life from June to September, horrible humidity and heat. There is no leg up. Vancouver I agree, but the November rain is horrid.

[bossy22]

Originally Posted by Swift

Anyone have any thoughts on living in that region (Moncton/PEI/Amherst, NS) that are based on actual experience out there? I've only visited once many years ago, but our next trip will probably be out that way as my wife has never been.

My best friend has property in PEI. They go back every summer. His goal is to retire early and move back there. He misses the ocean that he grew up on. He has said the winters can be horrendous out there, but he just said he'd travel in the winter and sail and kite surf all summer. His property is a 20 minute canoe ride from the beach that he goes kite surfing on.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Swift

Funny you mentioned that as the one person in our company who has been allowed to work remotely full time is actually someone who moved from Ontario to Nelson! The company had actually started piloting full time work from home prior to the lockdown, although you still had to be within driving distance from a regional office.


Anyway, I've been entertaining the idea for a couple of years (unrelated to politics) of moving out east as we have an office in Moncton. Now Moncton itself seems kind of dull/rundown, but I like the idea of living in a house looking out at the sea about 30-60 mins drive away.



Anyone have any thoughts on living in that region (Moncton/PEI/Amherst, NS) that are based on actual experience out there? I've only visited once many years ago, but our next trip will probably be out that way as my wife has never been.

I think the check in in person once a week will become more common than complete remote work. Lots of the sales jobs were like that already. That does open up longer commuting options like Canmore for people in Calgary. A 2.5hr commute once a week is not to bad.

[PaperBagger'14]

For me and my family, Calgary combines tolerable at best weather, a very tight knit friend group, high earning potential and affordable ish living. The only places where 3 out of those 4 could be better is in the US and we had contemplated that last year. The places we were looking at were ~2 hours from the ocean, housing prices were roughly half of Calgary and earnings were around 40% higher after adjusting for higher wage and substantially lower taxes.

With all that said, we didn't pull the trigger and that was entirely due to our friends and family. Truthfully if I end up laid off from this, we will be re visiting a move to the states.

[Ozy_Flame]

I'm curious. If your plan is to work, how does one just "up and go" to the States? Work visas and green cards are incredibly hard to come by.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm curious. If your plan is to work, how does one just "up and go" to the States? Work visas and green cards are incredibly hard to come by.

Depending on education, skill and networking it can be done. The field I work in is interesting, in Canada you need at minimum a tech diploma, quite often also an engineering degree. In the states its a lot more common for them to use a nationally recognized associations testing system for qualification. Long story short, what it takes to get into the industry in Canada is ~4 to 6 years of training, while in the states you could walk off the street and work under someone more senior in the position.

The US has visas that recognize exemplary training and education and they get priority. It is generally contingent on having an offer of employment letter as well. Take a look at the E2 visa for more info.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Toronto requires an air conditioned life from June to September, horrible humidity and heat. There is no leg up. Vancouver I agree, but the November rain is horrid.

I have never called Toronto home, but I also think that heat is something you must adjust to. When I first moved from Canada to Taiwan and lived in high humidity 30+ weather I couldn't walk a block without being a pool of sweat, but after years in Shanghai and Hong Kong, I learned to move and breathe differently in the heat. When I left, I was was totally happy in 90% humidity 35+ weather. I would sleep in it comfortably without the AC on. I enjoyed it. Coming back to Canada in the summer time I felt like I needed a sweater even in the summer in the Okanagan. I also had two years in NE China just south of Siberia in between Taiwan and Shanghai/Hong Kong. Those winters had no chinooks and were often -35. Far more intense winters than I grew up with in Calgary, and just as long.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I think it's much more likely that it could simply be adjusted to and isn't that bad once you get used to it.

Edit: Reflecting more, I guess it probably just is that different environments are more or less workable for different people. I adapted to enjoy 35+ degree hot weather, but I never came to like the grey drizzle of Vancouver even after years of it.

[Red Slinger]

^ I agree. I lived in Perth for 3 years and the first summer was really hot (and oddly the first winter was really cold) but I got used to it afterwards. Weather conditions obviously impact peoples lives but people adjust to almost any conditions relatively quickly. After all, we colonized almost every ecosystem on the planet.

I've found that culture is a much more important factor for quality of life and it may be THE most important factor. However, not only is it difficult to quantify (unlike weather) and it's almost impossible to really 'know' a culture until you're in it, but it very much depends on personal preference. For instance, living in the US Bible Belt would be a nightmare for me but for a very Christian, conservative (and likely white) person it could be right up their alley.

[Flamenspiel]

The impacts of heat and humidity go beyond it just being hot, the air is foul. To each his own, I lived in Toronto for a long time and never liked it. Calgary climate is heaven sent compared to that .

The adjustment for high heat in many places is people simply don’t come out till nighttime. That’s how they get used to it. Places like Rome and New Delhi come alive at night in the summer.

Sorry Perth is not Toronto. I never felt the ocean breeze at Young and Dundas(or the beaches) and the lake is closed to swimmers because of pollution.

[Manhattanboy]

I am born and raised in Calgary. So was my dad. And most of his friends.

I like to think I’ve seen it all in this town. The only time I was away was three years of university in Vancouver.

I have never been more pessimistic nor sad for Calgary and Alberta. The federal Liberals have never given a crap about this area of the country and it’s worse now than it’s ever been.

If I had kids in university there is no way I would let them start careers and families here.

[bossy22]

My brother moved out to Toronto 4 years ago. The first year was a lot of complaining about the heat and humidity. Now he is used to it and loves it, and now he routinely sends me pictures of the temperature, like yesterday when he sent a picture of his dash and it showed 25 degrees. But I showed him. I showed him a picture of my deck with 6 inches of snow on it.

[Manhattanboy]

dp

[Flamenspiel]

Someone asked about Moncton and the Maritimes, that’s the Toronto brain drain, house prices are doubling in some areas and it’s mostly cash from Toronto. There was an article in the glove and mail. Let’s be clear that downtown condos are not doing well in TO as that brain drain moves to the suburbs and rural areas within 2 hours.

Heck, New Yorkers are moving to Connecticut. I am not sure this is long term though, it could all change after COVID.

Yes I understand that some people do like to hang out in a COVID infested park in downtown Toronto, but to each his own.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

When you look at Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, all 3 cities suck to be in weather-wise from Nov-Feb. Where the latter two get a leg up is actually getting spring, while Calgary is stuck with #### weather until mid-May most years

I don't mind winter here - it's dry, usually sunny and we get chinooks often enough to break up the really cold spells. But mid-Feb to mid-May is the worst, that's when I would travel.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

To support this high speed internet needs to be a priority. The US is failing at this so provides Canada with an opportunity to be a leader in small town remote work.

Is that going to change with all these satellite networks going up?

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

When you look at Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, all 3 cities suck to be in weather-wise from Nov-Feb. Where the latter two get a leg up is actually getting spring, while Calgary is stuck with #### weather until mid-May most years

One of the many reasons why I left Calgary was the lack of spring weather, its my favorite season and seeing bare leafless trees in april and shovelling snow was too much.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Political Dynasties is one thing, but Political actions can be reversed.

Only if the dynasty falls

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I am born and raised in Calgary. So was my dad. And most of his friends.

I like to think I’ve seen it all in this town. The only time I was away was three years of university in Vancouver.

I have never been more pessimistic nor sad for Calgary and Alberta. The federal Liberals have never given a crap about this area of the country and it’s worse now than it’s ever been.

If I had kids in university there is no way I would let them start careers and families here.

You would just forbid them from living here lol?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I am born and raised in Calgary. So was my dad. And most of his friends.

I like to think I’ve seen it all in this town. The only time I was away was three years of university in Vancouver.

I have never been more pessimistic nor sad for Calgary and Alberta. The federal Liberals have never given a crap about this area of the country and it’s worse now than it’s ever been.

If I had kids in university there is no way I would let them start careers and families here.

Username doesn’t check out