Pronman's 2020 Farm System Rankings

[Robbob]

Wolf definitely needs fill out. I don't think the height is that much of an issue. Everything pretty much says he was 6' when he was drafted, so who know where he ends up. What he needs to do is fill out. 160 odd lbs is way too light. Ryan Miller is listed at 6'2" and 170lbs, Jordon Binnington is also right around there.

Sucks that this weekend is typically when the young stars tournament played. Would have been fun going down and seeing our young guys school some of the other teams.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I don't know if there are any goalies out there on this forum who can answer this, but how important is a goalie coach? When we see a player who has a weak shot, or poor skating, or isn't getting better year over year etc. I don't see the same blame being laid on the coaches and trainers. It's typically the player being blamed. When it comes to goalies however, we seem to want to blame the goalie coach. Sigalet seems like an easy scapegoat to me.

I don't think people are quick to blame goalie coaches.

However, the simple fact of the matter is that this team hasn't drafted and developed a goalie into a legit starter (or even 1B) since... Vernon?

Personally, I am in no position to assess the skills of a goalie coach. But at some point, with the track record as consistently bad as the Flames' has been, I think it's fair to start questioning the process, and the people in charge of that process.

Zero for your entire tenure is a lousy resume.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not that I necessarily disagree, but the one flaw in that argument is that if a goalie gets "ruined" it probably doesn't get fixed by moving away, at least not right away. Of course, of all the goalies Sigalet dealt with, those two plus Hiller probably would be the most impervious to his influence either way, being vets and, in Smith's case, arrogant ones.

Right, but I don't think their removal from Sigalet's resumé does anything to affect it one way or the other. Who else is there? Joni Ortio? Eddie Lack? There have just been a lot of very unimpressive goalies in the Flames system for a long time.

[868904]

Sigalet has had some success here but like the Flames coaches during the same period, I wouldn't call him a good coach or elite.

Talbot was a strength for this team this year and he credited Sigalet for his rebound.

Rittich was an all star this year, it's hard to criticize your goalie coach when an obscure free agent goalie that he had a hand in scouting and coaching gets an all star nod.

As for the prospects:

In my mind, Gillies was always over-rated by Flames fans. His college numbers were average, not great nor elite. Flames fans went gaga over his numbers because they looked great against what the Flames goalies in the NHL were doing, but if you compared to other college goalies, it was nothing special. Gillies was the number 1 goalie for the USA at the WJC and he struggled and they didn't medal. He won a national championship with Providence but I think he let in 5 goals in the deciding game. I watched that game, and he wasn't great, just good enough to help his team win. Providence was a defensive powerhouse and that made his numbers look even better than they were; this is also a concern for me with regards to Wolf who plays on a team with a tradition of defensive hockey. Outside of Calgary, hockey fans and analysts didn't have Gillies as one of the elite goalie prospects either. Now maybe Mitch Korn or Ian Clark could have turned Gillies into an NHL player, but I don't think there was that much to work with here.

Parsons on the other hand was a brilliant junior goalie and was also highly touted even by fans of other teams. He dominated the WJC and led USA to gold. He dominated the Memorial Cup and led his team to the Championship, and yes his team was quite stacked too, but if you watched him play, you knew he was a big contributor. The problem with Parsons has been injuries and I don't think you can fault the goalie coach for that.

The rest of the goalie prospects really aren't even worth commenting.

[Blaster86]

FWIW Sigalet seems to be very good with people who have previous professional experience but struggles with prospects.

[Bingo]

I think this gets somewhat over thought for a position that is so hard to pinpoint.

Can't argue with the franchise history, but the drafting and developing roles have changed so much over that time that you have to parse it down.

Goalies drafted under the current management (Treliving).

2014 - Mason McDonald (was this a Treliving pick or a Burke pick?)
2015 - None
2016 - Tyler Parsons
2017 - None
2018 - None
2019 - Dustin Wolf

Jordan Sigalet Tenure

Abbotsford 2011-2014
Leland Irving - has him for year two, out of the organization after year three
Joni Ortio - improves to get onto the NHL radar but loses it
That was pretty much it as an AHL guy, rest were journeymen

Calgary Flames 2014-Now
Hiller/Ramo/Ortio
Hiller/Ramo/Ortio
Johnson/Elliott
Smith/Rittich
Rittich/Smith
Talbot/Rittch

The guy not drafted by Treliving but in and around Sigalet that isn't summarized above is Jon Gillies.

So in this list you have Mason McDonald who just didn't seem to be an astute pick, Tyler Parsons who was held back through injury and mental issues, and Jon Gillies who had hip surgery and was never the same.

Rittich was developed, and actually found by Sigalet.

Not sure what goaltender was ruined in this time frame to be honest.

[GioforPM]

It's also pretty hard to argue with picking Parsons or Wolf. McDinald, yeah, but that (a) may have been Burke, (b) wasn't that far off the page since he was the second ranked CSS goalie and (c) Demko has really not done a whole lot except for the last three games.

I think that there's some evidence that a good goalie coach can help an NHLer (like, say Burke did with Dubnyk or Allaire with JSG). I'd also imagine there are guys who are good at developing new pros in the AHL. I wonder if the jobs should be split.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by 868904

Rittich was an all star this year, it's hard to criticize your goalie coach when an obscure free agent goalie that he had a hand in scouting and coaching gets an all star nod. .

Was he though? Didn’t Markstrom and Fluery back out, and Hellybuck was also selected? Also Coyotes had both their goalies injured.

So he was an all star compared to Mike Smith and Mikko Kostinen

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Was he though? Didn’t Markstrom and Fluery back out, and Hellybuck was also selected? Also Coyotes had both their goalies injured.

So he was an all star compared to Mike Smith and Mikko Kostinen

Wrong.

Markstrom replaced Fleury and Rittich replaced Kuemper. Raanta was healthy at the time of the ASG, and Hellebyuck's selection had no bearing on the Pacific Division team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMike

So he was an all star compared to Mike Smith and Mikko Kostinen

And Jones, and Gibson, and Raanta, and Quick.

[Jiri Hrdina]

With Gillies, we need to keep in mind that he was developing very nicely until his hip injury. That seemed to really impact his trajectory.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

With Gillies, we need to keep in mind that he was developing very nicely until his hip injury. That seemed to really impact his trajectory.

I haven't given up on Gillies yet but I dont think there's room for him in this organization either. With Zags, Parsons and Wolf and Schneider, not a lot of space. And I'm not sure Schneider has a place either.

[getbak]

Gillies will be a UFA in a month. I don't see him re-signing with the Flames.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I was never very high on Gillies to begin with. The more I watched him play, the more I figured that I just can't tell what a good goalie prospect looks like or something, as I couldn't figure out exactly why people liked him so much.


Contrast that with Parsons. I love his game. Kid is fricken amazing, especially in the big games. People forgot about the Memorial Cup and World Juniors, but just as impressive was the playoffs in his D+1 year. He was unbelievable, and he dragged that team kicking and screaming into the playoffs, and then through some tough teams. That team was picked apart after the draft as they were a powerhouse, but most of the good players left - Tkachuk, Marner, Dvorak (IIRC), as well as some others. Parsons pushed that team further than they should have ever gotten with more than a few 50+ save nights.


Parsons is the real deal. Hope he is healthy soon both mentally and physically. Wolf seems like a good goalie (I haven't seen him play enough personally), but Parsons is a 'big game' goalie. Glad that Wolf and Parsons are both in the system.



As for Schneider - I actually liked him too. I thought he was a better goalie than Gillies - he just had that compete in him to make 2nd and 3rd saves. Just really battled. I don't think he will be back either, but I think he is closer to the NHL than Gillies is, probably as a back-up.



I haven't really seen much of Zagidullin play, so no opinion on him. His numbers are relatively underwhelming, but I find stat watching doesn't really describe players well, especially goalies.


Thinking of Parsons in the system just makes me relaxed as a human being. All will be well in the world again.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

With Gillies, we need to keep in mind that he was developing very nicely until his hip injury. That seemed to really impact his trajectory.

I don't think he's ever been the same after hip surgery. His development kind of stalled and he never got back on track.

[Blaster86]

Canucks ranked only behind NYR who have the potential to be a ####ing power house in 3 - 5 years and NJD who... I don't see the hype behind? I guess they've lucked into two draft lottery wins, but it looks like they took the wrong player in both?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

With Gillies, we need to keep in mind that he was developing very nicely until his hip injury. That seemed to really impact his trajectory.

This is why I still think Gillies was a great draft pick.
Really, it was the hip injury that derailed things. Poor guy.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Devil remind me of the oilers with their 1st overalls from 2010-2012. Just the wrong time to be getting the 1st overall pick as while Hischier and Hughes are nice young players, IMO they are over rated and won't carry that team to contender status.

The Rangers are strong on the wings, but after Zibanejad they don't have any real high end C prospects. But Z has developed into a stud #1 so they should be able to fill out behind alright.

The right side of their D is fricking sick. Trouba, Deangelo and Fox, and then they have Nils Lundkvist coming too which will allow them to trade Deangelo for a pretty penny if they so choose.

They've also already seemingly have their goaltending figured out for the long term with Shesterkin and Georgiev already pushing Henrik to the sidelines, and they're both 24 IIRC?

With their resources, their ability to draw high end talent, their prospect pool and all the good young players already on the roster, the Rags are going to be a force again soon. Plus they are about to get Lafreniere. I'd wager they are a playoff team as early as next season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Canucks ranked only behind NYR who have the potential to be a ####ing power house in 3 - 5 years and NJD who... I don't see the hype behind? I guess they've lucked into two draft lottery wins, but it looks like they took the wrong player in both?

Are they including Lafrienniere or not?

[JTech780]

I am curious to what teams are drafting and developing NHL goalies on a regular basis, serious question. Anaheim jumps to mind and maybe LA, but outside of that is there anyone else? What are teams doing to successfully develop goalies that this team isn't doing.

Guys like MacDonald and Gillies had tons of physical tools, but they just never seemed to be able to develop their games mentally. Both IMO were prone to mental lapses, and that really held their game back.

With Parsons I see a guy who is small so he has to compensate for that with quickness, but sometimes that means he is too busy in the net and moving too much. The struggle for him is to not over commit to the initial shot. I think he is stronger mentally than the other two, it's just refining his game technically.

Wolf has a lot of similarities to Parsons, the test will be how he adjusts to the pro game.