[Trade] Toronto trades Kasperi Kapanen to Pittsburgh

[TheScorpion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298287079873548291

Rutherford has made one mistake after another since the Pens last won a Cup.

[PepsiFree]

And by the logic that a player previously included in a trade from our team isn't in the future plans currently, doesn't it mean that the players on the other side (Kadri and Edler) must be part of our future plans currently too?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298287079873548291

Rutherford has made one mistake after another since the Pens last won a Cup.

Is Kapanen that bad, or is this tweet a little inflammatory? He's saying he's an AHLer, or Jankowski level.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK now we are playing "What Ifs".
The most important player in their Cups has been Crosby. Agreed?
And they got him by a whole lotta luck. 6% chance of getting him.
That's my point.

We are playing what ifs because you introduced that to dismiss 5 years of high draft picks to one momentous piece of luck.

Maybe the flames are just the most unlucky organization in the history of the league or maybe it's more related to never having a single top 3 pick in 40 years and only once picking multiple times in the 1st round...

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is Kapanen that bad, or is this tweet a little inflammatory? He's saying he's an AHLer, or Jankowski level.

By most analytical models Kapanen is just that. He doesn't drive play, he's middling defensively, and he picks up points by playing with far superior players.

I've seen people compare him to Nylander. He's closer to Neal in terms of his overall impact.

Until very recently I had bought into the Kapanen hype fully but I didn't realize just how poor his all-around impact was until I took a look at the actual numbers. There's a lot of Blake Comeau in him, if you ask me.

Edit: that said, guys with Kapanen's skillset can have value and he's hardly a known quantity at this point. His output thus far has been somewhat disappointing but he still has promise. I wouldn't have dealt a mid-first for him but Rutherford does know the player. That said, I think trading picks like this should be reserved for acquiring players with more potential. I think Kapanen has come pretty close to his peak as a player, but I thought that about Lindholm, too. With Kapanen, I could maybe see a more consistent version of Michael Grabner.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Being discussed as part of potential trades doesn't mean you're not part of the core. It seems Calgary leaks more of this stuff than other teams, or maybe we just hear of it more, but I'd imagine such conversations are commonplace.

I think it seems like this because we are so hyper-focussed on the Flames. I'm guessing it is similar in other markets where the media attention is as intense, and probably would be in markets where the NHL team is largely ignored but for the dearth in coverage.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Enoch Root]

There's the difference in views...

Kapanen is a dynamic player with good speed. But his numbers suck.

If you want to try and build a team with a spreadsheet, he isn't your guy and this isn't a good trade.

But I prefer to spread joy and I think he is a good player.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

We are playing what ifs because you introduced that to dismiss 5 years of high draft picks to one momentous piece of luck.

Maybe the flames are just the most unlucky organization in the history of the league or maybe it's more related to never having a single top 3 pick in 40 years and only once picking multiple times in the 1st round...

Nope I didn't.
You stated that they got Crosby by being a garbage team.
I stated that they got him by being lucky.
I think my statement is more true than yours.

And yes it underscores how just tanking and focusing on draft picks isn't enough - you have to have some good fortune in terms of when you, how good that draft is, and how high a pick you get in a lottery world.

That's the risk of going scored earth.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And by the logic that a player previously included in a trade from our team isn't in the future plans currently, doesn't it mean that the players on the other side (Kadri and Edler) must be part of our future plans currently too?

Yes, sure if they were available... I would think it is pretty likely that Calgary is still interested in acquiring the same guys (Kadri, Mark Stone, Zucker, Edler) they were earlier this year or last year, especially given that the Flames still have the same GM.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There's the difference in views...

Kapanen is a dynamic player with good speed. But his numbers suck.

If you want to try and build a team with a spreadsheet, he isn't your guy and this isn't a good trade.

But I prefer to spread joy and I think he is a good player.

Lol, I understood that reference.

I guess what I'm saying here is, if I'm Pittsburgh, and I want to trade the 15th pick and a decent prospect for a guy to play with Crosby and Malkin... is Kasperi Kapanen really the best guy I can get? I have a hard time believing that, personally. But at this point, I'm very curious to see how it plays out. Some guys just need changes to scenery to thrive.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Kapanen is a year removed from a 20 goal season. During that season he saw very little powerplay time because of how top heavy the team was. It's not like he was fed a time of opportune minutes and capitalized. I think his down season is closer to having a sophomore slump than anything.

Penguins need help now. They aren't looking to rebuild while Crosby and Malkin breath, so getting help now was their goal. The only argument I see against this trade from their point-of-view is if they could have got a better forward for the pick or the cap-space. If neither are true, then I think it's a decent deal for them.

Toronto needs to move out cap-space, making this an ideal move for them.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

is Kasperi Kapanen really the best guy I can get? I have a hard time believing that, personally.

What names come to mind then? How many young 20-something year olds with 20 goal seasons are being moved for this price?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Nope I didn't.
You stated that they got Crosby by being a garbage team.
I stated that they got him by being lucky.
I think my statement is more true than yours.

And yes it underscores how just tanking and focusing on draft picks isn't enough - you have to have some good fortune in terms of when you, how good that draft is, and how high a pick you get in a lottery world.

That's the risk of going scored earth.

No, I said 'being garbage is how they got crosby and malkin in the first place', because without being bad, there is no luck available to get Malkin.

I have consistently acknowledged the role luck plays in both draft and development.

No team trying to be good was going to get Malkin at 2nd overall because you have to be bad to get there, so I don't think your statement is more true than mine, it's the inverse.

To get crosby and malkin you had to be garbage.

And again, you're focusing on this as if it's one year, which I don't blame you, the Flames feel the same way.

It's about CONSISTENTLY being bad and accumulating picks, not picking in the 1st round 3 times and calling it a day, or drafting 6th overall and then moving a ton of futures for a player like Hamonic.

Tanking and focusing on picks is how you BEST position yourself for success. Whether Washington wins a cup or not in 2019, they were consistently at the top of the league over a period of time following a commitment to draft high and frequently.

While the Flames were ####ing around in 2012, the capitals were taking Tom WIlson and Forsberg in the first round, with Tom Wilson available with the draft pick the flames traded away in order to 're-coup' the 2nd round pick they had recklessly traded away in the first place.

One team won a cup years later and another team sucks ####.

In the last 15 years the Capitals have drafted more than once in the first round FIVE TIMES.

in FOURTY YEARS the flames have done it ONCE.

If you think that's just luck I've got several bridges to sell you.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What names come to mind then? How many young 20-something year olds with 20 goal seasons are being moved for this price?

Athanasiou, but IIRC he was viewed as a lesser player and had an expiring contract.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Does hockey have a "WAR" model? I really don't follow hockey analytics and I haven't seen the term "sub-replacement" level used that often in the NHL.

[Enoch Root]

because it is a deeply flawed stat

[Oling_Roachinen]

Anyone know about Kapanen's signing bonus? Normally it would have been paid July 1st most likely. This year, I'm not sure. It's not little, it makes up the majority of his compensation this year. Everyone online always focuses on cap, but in real world, if the Penguins are getting a potential 20 goal scorer for 700,000, that's huge.

Originally Posted by GioForPM

Athanasiou, but IIRC he was viewed as a lesser player and had an expiring contract.

If that's the alternative, they made out like bandits.

[David Struch]

Hey yeah, Kapanen contract here:

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/kasperi-kapanen

[activeStick]

I don't think Kapanen is that good, and I'm glad the Flames didn't acquire him. On Pittsburgh, playing with Sid or Geno, he'll be fine but I see Kapanen more as a third liner. I like the deal for Toronto.

[Enoch Root]

I would assume the bonus is still owing, but even including the bonus, the Pens are only paying him $5.2M over the next 2 years.