[Signing] Lindholm signs 6-year / $29.1M contract ($4.85M AAV)

[dino7c]

Some of you aren't adjusting for inflation...5 and change is the going rate. You aren't gonna low ball a player you just traded for.

What CP is comfortable with is irrelevant...unless don't want him in the lineup come October.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Don’t forget though, there’s also potential for him to do worse (i.e. Brouwer, Raymond and etc). That’s the risk and Treliving will need to mitigate that as much as possible. We’re all hoping that he breaks through. But the biggest fear for me is that his production level drops and we have another anchor of a contract that actually inhibits the team going forward. For a player who hasn’t touched the 20 goal mark yet, I personally wouldn’t be comfortable seeing his number start with a $5.xx.

He doesn't have to get any better or worse to make that contract market.

The fact that he's 23 and has all of his contract years in the period of time where players generally don't hit a wall is key. What is going to make a useful middle six forward that scores 45 points consistently while also playing a role on the PK, PP and 3 on 3 hit a wall between ages 23 and 29?

Brouwer isn't a good comparison.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Heck, I remember people here complaining about Backlund’s $5.35M and he’s a multiple 20 goal scoring center who was 4th in Selke voting.

Careful with "people" as I'd call that a small minority, and unlikely the person you're debating this with.

The Backlund contract was "market" as well, but does come with a lot of 30s so it's a different concern.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by locsofblu

I don't think I did. I didn't know to much about Hamilton when we first traded for him. Hope it all works out in the end but I'm not a fan of long term deals especially when the player hasn't played a game as a flame yet.

You can't win in the NHL with your way of thinking. You have to evaluate and then hedge on future success of young talent, every team does this now. If you don't you'll end up losing or paying free agent dollars for every young player you produce.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Don’t forget though, there’s also potential for him to do worse (i.e. Brouwer, Raymond and etc). That’s the risk and Treliving will need to mitigate that as much as possible. We’re all hoping that he breaks through. But the biggest fear for me is that his production level drops and we have another anchor of a contract that actually inhibits the team going forward. For a player who hasn’t touched the 20 goal mark yet, I personally wouldn’t be comfortable seeing his number start with a $5.xx.

Heck, I remember people here complaining about Backlund’s $5.35M and he’s a multiple 20 goal scoring center who was 4th in Selke voting.

How many 23 year old, 5th overall picks that made the NHL in their 1st year, and are career .50 PPG, with 374 games under their belt, regress at the age of 24?

I'll wait while you try to think of one.

Comparing him to Brouwer and Raymond is laughable.

Even comparing him to Backlund is a bit of a stretch, considering their ages. But if you want to, it's Backlund's contract that would be the more worrisome, considering his age. And I am not concerned about Backlund's contract.

I would like to see a 4 handle on Lindholm's contract too, but that's unlikely, unless it is 5 years or shorter. If it's 6 years or longer, there is no way it will have a 4 handle.

[Vinny01]

I think Lindholm is eventually going to settle on the second line taking Frolik’s spot on the 3M line and proving to be a sizable upgrade. I also believe Frolik is a solid vet to pair with the Bennett-Jankowski pair.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Don’t forget though, there’s also potential for him to do worse (i.e. Brouwer, Raymond and etc). That’s the risk and Treliving will need to mitigate that as much as possible. We’re all hoping that he breaks through. But the biggest fear for me is that his production level drops and we have another anchor of a contract that actually inhibits the team going forward. For a player who hasn’t touched the 20 goal mark yet, I personally wouldn’t be comfortable seeing his number start with a $5.xx.

Heck, I remember people here complaining about Backlund’s $5.35M and he’s a multiple 20 goal scoring center who was 4th in Selke voting.

There is always potential for players playing worse.

if you fixate on that, you'll sign every player to one year terms, paying top dollar, and lose out on every UFA.

You have to evaluate players and decide how you think is a good bet going forward and hope you get good deals on players who will improve.

Lindholm is likely a good bet to do that.

[blender]

No chance he gets more AAV than Backlund his countryman who just Captained Sweden to WC gold.

Not on Treliving's Flames

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I also believe Frolik is a solid vet to pair with the Bennett-Jankowski pair.

100% this. I think Frolik is the optimal guy to put on their line. I mean the metaphor about a lot of young athletes (and I think it applies to Bennett & Jankowski) is that they have great tools but no toolbox to put them in... I think Frolik can be that for them (until they develop their own). I feel like Frolik is very good at the stuff that Bennett & Jankowski aren't (and vice-versa) so they can make a decent trio.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Parallex

100% this. I think Frolik is the optimal guy to put on their line. I mean the metaphor about a lot of young athletes (and I think it applies to Bennett & Jankowski) is that they have great tools but no toolbox to put them in... I think Frolik can be that for them (until they develop their own). I feel like Frolik is very good at the stuff that Bennett & Jankowski aren't (and vice-versa) so they can make a decent trio.

All true, but I wonder if it isn't time to split Jankowski and Bennett. They've played well together in a couple brief segments, but otherwise, not really. If you keep them together though, yeah, Frolik is a good choice for RW. Or perhaps Lindholm, who is good defensively.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All true, but I wonder if it isn't time to split Jankowski and Bennett. They've played well together in a couple brief segments, but otherwise, not really. If you keep them together though, yeah, Frolik is a good choice for RW. Or perhaps Lindholm, who is good defensively.

Depends on how you read last season.

They had Jagr and looked like they were coming on. For a brief spell Hathaway was on fire and they continued on. Then the trio hit the wall.

Was it Hathaway coming down to Earth? All three of them?

The one thing Frolik does that they haven't had is keep them out of trouble in their own zone more ... plus everything to the net. Frolik never shies away from putting the puck towards the cage, something that could create some garbage goals and maybe the weight of gibraltar off of Bennett's back with some lucky tap ins.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Depends on how you read last season.

They had Jagr and looked like they were coming on. For a brief spell Hathaway was on fire and they continued on. Then the trio hit the wall.

Was it Hathaway coming down to Earth? All three of them?

The one thing Frolik does that they haven't had is keep them out of trouble in their own zone more ... plus everything to the net. Frolik never shies away from putting the puck towards the cage, something that could create some garbage goals and maybe the weight of gibraltar off of Bennett's back with some lucky tap ins.

Oh, I know the timeline. But IMO those two players should have survived a change of wingers a little better.

I expect they will keep them together a little longer though.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How many 23 year old, 5th overall picks that made the NHL in their 1st year, and are career .50 PPG, with 374 games under their belt, regress at the age of 24?

I'll wait while you try to think of one.

Comparing him to Brouwer and Raymond is laughable.

Even comparing him to Backlund is a bit of a stretch, considering their ages. But if you want to, it's Backlund's contract that would be the more worrisome, considering his age. And I am not concerned about Backlund's contract.

I would like to see a 4 handle on Lindholm's contract too, but that's unlikely, unless it is 5 years or shorter. If it's 6 years or longer, there is no way it will have a 4 handle.

I agree with everything you said and I hope they sign Lindholm to at least a 6 year deal and move some salary out so they can sign Hanifin to a 6 year deal, as the only way you have long term success under the cap is getting good young players who improve over time on longterm deals where they outperform their contract.

That being said, Sam Gagner fits your profile of a high pick who was a half a point a game guy who played at 18 and subsequently regressed. That being said, Lindholm is a much better all around player than Gagner and he did not have the Oilers to wreck his career.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All true, but I wonder if it isn't time to split Jankowski and Bennett. They've played well together in a couple brief segments, but otherwise, not really. If you keep them together though, yeah, Frolik is a good choice for RW. Or perhaps Lindholm, who is good defensively.

Which of the 2 players would move to the 4th line or up to the 2nd line?

I see Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal getting a long look to start things off.

I believe that Tkachuk and Lindholm will be the wingers on the second line so they could try Jankowski there and have Backlund Centre Bennett and Frolik?

They can also swap Jankowski and Ryan and have Jankowski Centre the 4th line but I suspect he will outplay Ryan. If the Flames push Bennett to the 4th line they might as well do the kid a favor and cut him loose

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The one thing Frolik does that they haven't had is keep them out of trouble in their own zone more ... plus everything to the net. Frolik never shies away from putting the puck towards the cage, something that could create some garbage goals and maybe the weight of gibraltar off of Bennett's back with some lucky tap ins.

That's basically it for me I think.

Hathaway is (IMO) a AAAA/4th line player. He had a solid spurt that kept him on the line further then was justified by ongoing performance. Frolik has very good wheels, a defensive conscience, and he pushes the play north which is what the line needs. I feel like Bennett & Jankowski do good things in the offensive zone but have issues with getting the puck there... add Frolik and I wager those good things happen more often.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Some of you aren't adjusting for inflation...5 and change is the going rate. You aren't gonna low ball a player you just traded for.

What CP is comfortable with is irrelevant...unless don't want him in the lineup come October.

I always laugh when people refer to what they are comfortable with or what they are not comfortable with .

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I see Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal getting a long look to start things off.

I believe that Tkachuk and Lindholm will be the wingers on the second line so they could try Jankowski there and have Backlund Centre Bennett and Frolik?

See I see things differently... I think you start with Lindholm on the line with Gaudreau-Monahan. and Neal on the Line with Tkachuk-Backlund (But reverse that for the PP units).

Put Lindholm with Gaudreau-Monahan and you get a RH shot on the line and a guy who can take faceoffs when location dictates that a RH would pull the puck better. If the 3M line needed anything last year it was a deadeye'd shooter to capitalize on all the OZ time they earned by pushing the play north.

Optimally I'd run the lines and PP units like so...

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal
Bennett-Jankowski-Frolik
Lazar-Ryan-Czarnik

PP1:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal-Ryan-Giordano

PP2:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm-Hanifin-Hamonic

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You’re mixing cost of living and taxes with exchange rate differences.

If you make $100K US a year you’re better off living in Beaumont TX than Vancouver. Doesn’t matter what the exchange rate is. This has been true for last 30 years despite wild fluctuations in exchange rates.

Yeah I'm mixing them because they are all part of the equation.

I never claimed it to be a big part. My original response was to someone asking why someone else would include exchange rates in their thought process and I explained why, with reference to one of our own players who cited it as a benefit for him personally.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Parallex

See I see things differently... I think you start with Lindholm on the line with Gaudreau-Monahan. and Neal on the Line with Tkachuk-Backlund (But reverse that for the PP units).

Put Lindholm with Gaudreau-Monahan and you get a RH shot on the line and a guy who can take faceoffs when location dictates that a RH would pull the puck better. If the 3M line needed anything last year it was a deadeye'd shooter to capitalize on all the OZ time they earned by pushing the play north.

Optimally I'd run the lines and PP units like so...

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal
Bennett-Jankowski-Frolik
Lazar-Ryan-Czarnik

PP1:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal-Ryan-Giordano

PP2:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm-Hanifin-Hamonic

I would be okay swapping Lindholm and Neal but I see the Backlund line still taking extremely tough matchups and Lindholm is better suited to the 2way game than Neal

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

See I see things differently... I think you start with Lindholm on the line with Gaudreau-Monahan. and Neal on the Line with Tkachuk-Backlund (But reverse that for the PP units).

Put Lindholm with Gaudreau-Monahan and you get a RH shot on the line and a guy who can take faceoffs when location dictates that a RH would pull the puck better. If the 3M line needed anything last year it was a deadeye'd shooter to capitalize on all the OZ time they earned by pushing the play north.

Pretty much me as well ... I think Neal is a better fit for Tkachuk then Gaudreau.

So then for me it's one of two looks for the middle six.

Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal
Bennett-Jankowski-Frolik

Or move Backlund and Frolik to line three (ice with matchups so not really a third line)

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Neal
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

[ComixZone]

News Update

Confirmed at 4.85M per for 6 years per Mike Kelly.

That's fantastic.