12 Teens and Soccer Coach Found Alive After 9 Days

[Split98]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Does anyone know how many other people are in the cave now? It seems like they'll need to get quite a few people out after the soccer players are all out.

I wonder if they'd actually use Musk's submarine. That seems pretty crazy to trust it to survive that journey after being built and tested in a weekend.

I was thinking the same thing until this tweet:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015657378140704768

"using the liquid oxygen transfer tube of Falcon rocket as hull"
So thankfully it's a tested piece of equipment they're modifying.

[killer_carlson]

My understanding from watching the coverage over the weekend is that there is a Dr with the team and the Dr makes the call who goes and when.

[CroFlames]

Which makes the most sense.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Itse

These cases always kind of make me wonder at the irrationality of people.

Like, you can easily get people to agree that we should spare no effort and use all the resources necessary to try save 12 kids from a cave, but it's really hard to get people to agree to help get even basic healthcare to other kids.

I'm not saying it to be negative, this just is the human nature. Sometimes beautiful, sometimes ugly, never completely rational.

Sure, but with the 12 kids in a cave, they are tangible and visible.

With 12 random kids who need basic healthcare, they are just abstract and indistinct.

Or, in a more simplistic statement: People generally don't care about something until it affects them personally.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Sure, but with the 12 kids in a cave, they are tangible and visible.

With 12 random kids who need basic healthcare, they are just abstract and indistinct.

Or, in a more simplistic statement: People generally don't care about something until it affects them personally.

And it has a finite end point. All the kids are out? We win. We tried, but some unfortunately didn't make it? Well, we tried.

The finite end point is important for people. Not many folks think long-term.

[shadowlord]

From: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ait-operation/

A third rescue attempt would be launched Tuesday afternoon, announced Narongsak Osottanakorn, the governor of Chiang Rai province and the head of the joint command centre coordinating the mission, on Monday evening.

But he would not confirm whether all five of the remaining survivors left huddling for another night in a dark cavern 2.5 miles inside the labyrinthian underground network, would be freed in one go.

The group is believed to include football coach Ekapol Chanthawong, 25.

“For safety, the best number is four,” he said, raising the possibility that one of the party could be left behind for another 24 hours.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

And it has a finite end point. All the kids are out? We win. We tried, but some unfortunately didn't make it? Well, we tried.

The finite end point is important for people. Not many folks think long-term.

It's actually had a very strong plot line.

Kids in danger
Hopeless outlook where everyone is expecting the worst
Plot twist where kids are found.
Playing on all everyone's fears by having water chase the kids a couple miles deep into a cave with passages they literally have to squeeze through.
Minor character dies to remind us the danger is real (no disrespect intended, he is a true hero and his death is a tragedy)
An impossibly tough escape where all the world's best scientists are offering solutions.
An outcome that has everyone believing could go either way.
Hopefully it ends with a truly happy ending where everyone is safe and healthy. And a parent punches the coach in the face before giving him a big hug.

[killer_carlson]

I was just speaking to a friend about the coach:

Is he a hero?

Or is he ridiculed into oblivion?

(My vote: Hero. Once they were in that spot he kept the kids together and alive.)

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I was just speaking to a friend about the coach:

Is he a hero?

Or is he ridiculed into oblivion?

(My vote: Hero. Once they were in that spot he kept the kids together and alive.)

Flawed hero?

Getting them to that spot instead of trying go back through water turner out pretty lucky or brilliant too. Assuming everyone gets out alive and relatively healthy, I say more hero than goat. If it was my kid, any ill feeling would definitely give way to gratitude once they are all safe.

[Amethyst]

Considering everyone apparently goes into this cave all the time, I don't think he's so bad. It was obviously too close to monsoon season, but if it's a place people explore regularly, I can see how this happens.

From all accounts I've heard, he helped the kids get through the ordeal, by leading them in meditation, etc. The fact that they were all together and in reasonably good spirits when found after 9 days without knowing if they'd ever be discovered, says hero to me.

Also, I've heard conflicting news reports about it being the strongest or the weakest boys who were brought out first. Today's news reports seem to confirm the plan was the bring the strongest out first but the doctor flipped the plan and told them to bring the weakest out first. Which to me is hopeful news, because the rescues should get easier as time goes on (easier of course being a very relative term here).

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I was just speaking to a friend about the coach:

Is he a hero?

Or is he ridiculed into oblivion?

(My vote: Hero. Once they were in that spot he kept the kids together and alive.)

I think because of how Thai culture is, Thai people would generally frown upon blaming a guy and mocking him publicly.

Especially because this guy didn't show any intent, and obviously cares about the safety of the boys.

[You Need a Thneed]

It was a mistake to bring the boys in, but it was BEFORE the monsoon season, and the cave was apparently dry when they went in.

Honestly, we all could make that same mistake.

This coach has almost certainly helped keep them all alive when stranded there.

Most certainly a Hero.

[Buff]

It would be cold and callous to ridicule him. Did he lead them to that cave, trap them and leave them for dead? No. Then nobody should be going on a witch hunt. This seriously pisses me off with our society. Somebody always needs to find a scapegoat and give out big punishment. Not every situation merits such action.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Buff

It would be cold and callous to ridicule him. Did he lead them to that cave, trap them and leave them for dead? No. Then nobody should be going on a witch hunt. This seriously posses me off with our society. Somebody always needs to find a scapegoat and give out big punishment. Not every situation merits such action.

The "Just World Hypothesis/Theory" - that as long as I/you do everything right, I'm/you're safe, and everybody who isn't safe is at fault for not doing everything right. Simplistically speaking, I suppose. My daughter just sent me something about this in relation to this situation and a few others.

[GGG]

The real question is was he educated enough and skilled enough to enter the cave with a youth group. If this was a random early rain that wasn't forecast and he took reasonable procautioms then he has done a good job keeping them alive. I'm not sure hero is the right word though. I'm not sure he did anything heroic other than to wait.

If he either wasn't aware of pontemtial monsoon risk that was forecast or saw a forecast but went anyway then he should be held responsible for his actions.

Much like the Humbolt bus crash. Was he negligent? Or did he practice a reasonable level of care that a similar person would do In thatsituation.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by GGG

The real question is was he educated enough and skilled enough to enter the cave with a youth group. If this was a random early rain that wasn't forecast and he took reasonable procautioms then he has done a good job keeping them alive. I'm not sure hero is the right word though. I'm not sure he did anything heroic other than to wait.

He kept 12 teenage boys together and in relatively good health for 9 days without knowing if any rescue would ever come. That's pretty heroic to me.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by GGG

The real question is was he educated enough and skilled enough to enter the cave with a youth group. If this was a random early rain that wasn't forecast and he took reasonable procautioms then he has done a good job keeping them alive. I'm not sure hero is the right word though. I'm not sure he did anything heroic other than to wait.

If he either wasn't aware of pontemtial monsoon risk that was forecast or saw a forecast but went anyway then he should be held responsible for his actions.

Much like the Humbolt bus crash. Was he negligent? Or did he practice a reasonable level of care that a similar person would do In thatsituation.

Dissecting it is so useless. I don't know this soccer coach personally, but I do know that people don't volunteer their time coaching just so that they can take a team into a dangerous situation.

The Canadian version of this could be a hike in Banff, where some a-hole bear backs them into a valley, where heli-rescue and climbing a slope are daunting/dangerous/potentially fatal.

I know it's natural to look for fault, but why now? Unless it comes out later that the coach coerced the kids into the cave for some nefarious reason, it really seems like a gung ho coach that took the team on an expedition, in a country where kids are not tethered to their parents 24/7. Sorta like 80s Canada, where I grew up. I went camping with cadets. We got to whittle with jackknives. There may have been bears in the forest.

[OMG!WTF!]

Actually the Canadian version of this was the STS avalanche tragedy in 2003. It's similar in almost all respects except, hopefully the outcome. I think most of the parents of the seven dead kids still supported the outdoor ed program at the school afterwards. The school still has quite a full curriculum of adventure education including back country skiing.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Actually the Canadian version of this was the STS avalanche tragedy in 2003. It's similar in almost all respects except, hopefully the outcome. I think most of the parents of the seven dead kids still supported the outdoor ed program at the school afterwards. The school still has quite a full curriculum of adventure education including back country skiing.

Well, I do look forward to the day we can mitigate all risk by checking an app before partaking in an activity, but until then, I will continue to believe that coaches of teams that go on building experiences have the best of intentions.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well, I do look forward to the day we can mitigate all risk by checking an app before partaking in an activity, but until then, I will continue to believe that coaches of teams that go on building experiences have the best of intentions.

Ok. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Just offering an example of people who obviously feel the same way as you.