Fire Brad Treliving

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why do you think getting picks for guys that aren’t going to sign is better than making a hockey trade. He wasn’t tossed in. He was part of the deal
I don’t get this line of thinking

Again value, I dont care who is traded, as long as you get value.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Agree with the posters saying that Treliving gets fixated on a player and exposes himself to overpaying.

Its the opposite. Treliving has been shopping Hamilton for over a year. This was the best offer.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think Treliving has taken his last big swing. This team misses the playoffs this year and Treliving is out on his ear. Sadly, he’s made some good trades, but they have never addressed the issues that plague the team. He’s a real strange guy in that he goes out of his way to make big deals, that don’t really improve the hockey team.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The guy just added two really good young pieces to the core, while shipping one young core piece the other way (Hamilton).

I just don't get why Fox had to be included.

You answered your own question.

Fox was added, because he had to be, as the Canes were moving two young core pieces.

They needed to get back a prospect with upside.

[Erick Estrada]

He's almost the polar opposite of Cheveldayoff in that when he makes deals he swings for the fences. Obviously when you are swinging for home runs you are going to strike out on occasion regardless of how good of a hitter you are. We saw that with the Hamonic deal and the results of this trade are yet to be determined. Kind of like he's got a little science experiment going on where he's changed the coaches to a guy he had pegged to be his guy for a while now and has made a big swap that should change culture in the locker room and may turn out to be brilliant or could blow up in his face. Unlike Jets fans you can't say the man isn't scared to change things up for better or worse we will see.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why do you think getting picks for guys that aren’t going to sign is better than making a hockey trade. He wasn’t tossed in. He was part of the deal
I don’t get this line of thinking

Because 48 hours ago a lot of people believed that Ferland and Hamilton should have been enough to get the assets acquired. So doesn’t feel like Fox returned much value.

Treliving himself talked about how if Ferland puts up another season like the last one he is going to to earn himself a big salary. Doesn’t that mean he is a valuable player? And Hamilton seems to be universally regarded as the best player in the deal.

So if Fox was so central to the deal, maybe a lesser forward could have been included in lieu of Ferland. Or if Ferland was key, how about a lesser prospect?

I believe as it turns out, Fox held much less value to the Flames than we believed. That’s too bad.

[ComixZone]

Fire Brad?



We complained all year about this team and their "give a crap" meter. So in response Brad fires the coach and then makes a trade that sends out a core member of the team who was identified as not giving a crap...and everyone loses their mind.

We got younger, we traded a prospect who wasn't going to sign with us, we subtracted a player who was identified as part of the problem with the culture of the team...like, what the hell do people want?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Because 48 hours ago a lot of people believed that Ferland and Hamilton should have been enough to get the assets acquired. So doesn’t feel like Fox returned much value.

Treliving himself talked about how if Ferland puts up another season like the last one he is going to to earn himself a big salary. Doesn’t that mean he is a valuable player? And Hamilton seems to be universally regarded as the best player in the deal.

So if Fox was so central to the deal, maybe a lesser forward could have been included in lieu of Ferland. Or if Ferland was key, how about a lesser prospect?

I believe as it turns out, Fox held much less value to the Flames than we believed. That’s too bad.

Pretty sure fox wasn’t central to the deal but if you listen to Tre talk about the trade he makes it clear that fox wasn’t goin to sign here so he had to trade him. I’d rather move dougie and get two good young players back than potentially lose ferland next summer as a ufa, and have fox sign elsewhere. Realistically it’s a very fair trade both teams taking on risk but Calgary gets controllable assets so I think we get the advantage.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Fire Brad?



We complained all year about this team and their "give a crap" meter. So in response Brad fires the coach and then makes a trade that sends out a core member of the team who was identified as not giving a cap...and everyone loses their mind.

We got younger, we traded a prospect who wasn't going to sign with us, we subtracted a player who was identified as part of the problem with the culture of the team...like, what the hell do people want?

Would you still feel this way if the Flames has traded this player who doesn’t give a crap for Lucic? For David Clarkson? Where is the line?

The return on one of the most valuable trade chips a team can have, while also giving away a great prospect, are why people are pissed. And rightfully so. Why is this so hard to understand?

Should we have just blindly accepted whatever return was offered and been happy about it?

[SportsJunky]

I’m looking forward to watching the D pairings this upcoming season. Brodie back with Gio. Hanifin and Hamonic. Kulak/Stone/Andersson on the 3rd. Treliving is re-tooling the defence. He took a swing with Dougie and now he’s taking another swing with Hanifin. Remember, it was Gulutzan who wanted Brodie on the other side. Sounds like both Treliving and Peters wants to put Brodano back together.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Fire Brad?



We complained all year about this team and their "give a crap" meter. So in response Brad fires the coach and then makes a trade that sends out a core member of the team who was identified as not giving a cap...and everyone loses their mind.

We got younger, we traded a prospect who wasn't going to sign with us, we subtracted a player who was identified as part of the problem with the culture of the team...like, what the hell do people want?

Blood or the first born, I assume.

[cupofjoe]

There is quite a number of people I wouldn't want to work for in this thread....

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Would you still feel this way if the Flames has traded this player who doesn’t give a crap for Lucic? For David Clarkson? Where is the line?

The return on one of the most valuable trade chips a team can have, while also giving away a great prospect, are why people are pissed. And rightfully so. Why is this so hard to understand?

Should we have just blindly accepted whatever return was offered and been happy about it?

Great prospect that obviously didn't want to sign with Calgary and intends on finishing school and likely becoming a UFA.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Would you still feel this way if the Flames has traded this player who doesn’t give a crap for Lucic? For David Clarkson? Where is the line?

The return on one of the most valuable trade chips a team can have, while also giving away a great prospect, are why people are pissed. And rightfully so. Why is this so hard to understand?

Should we have just blindly accepted whatever return was offered and been happy about it?

Because we didn’t get back Lucic, or Clarkson, we got back a 23 year old guy who is already a consistent 40 point threat and a 21 year old defence man who is developing on the same trajectory as the guy we just traded away.

It’s odd that people have some set value in their mind, that may or may not be remotely realistic, and then when it isn’t met they start comparing two young core pieces (who they’d love to have on their team, under nearly any other circumstance) to Lucic and Clarkson, which nobody wants.

So yeah, it really is hard to understand. Excuse the rest of us for not “getting it.”

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by New Era

I think Treliving has taken his last big swing. This team misses the playoffs this year and Treliving is out on his ear. Sadly, he’s made some good trades, but they have never addressed the issues that plague the team. He’s a real strange guy in that he goes out of his way to make big deals, that don’t really improve the hockey team.

It's June 24th. He improved the top 6 yesterday and there is still a lot of time between now and the start of the season.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Its the opposite. Treliving has been shopping Hamilton for over a year. This was the best offer.

I think you may be right. Hamilton likely had way more value to certain posters here than to actual GM's around the league. He has good offensive instincts but even then he's a 45pts dman. I don't think the minimal added offense he brings really matters that much when you see the weaknesses in his game. His dumb penalties alone used to drive me insane. Average defender at best. No physical presence or edge. Just never struck me as the type of guy you want to go to battle with in the playoffs.

Ferland I liked but he's inconsistent and I think really benefited from playing on that top line. He's likely gonna get overpaid on his next contract.

Adam Fox seems like he wasn't going to sign so I think that really diminishes his value. If his plan is to become a UFA then hes probably worth a 3rd round pick similar to Jimmy Vesey.

Hanifin and Lindholm I think I'm taking a wait and see approach. I think both have a ton of skill and a lot of potential. Even if they don't reach that potential I think they are worth Hamilton and Ferland right now. However, I think they do have the potential to make this a major win for the Flames. Hopefully not just in growth as players but just overall chemistry for the team which I think is a big part of this trade as well. Time will tell.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Because 48 hours ago a lot of people believed that Ferland and Hamilton should have been enough to get the assets acquired. So doesn’t feel like Fox returned much value.

Treliving himself talked about how if Ferland puts up another season like the last one he is going to to earn himself a big salary. Doesn’t that mean he is a valuable player? And Hamilton seems to be universally regarded as the best player in the deal.

So if Fox was so central to the deal, maybe a lesser forward could have been included in lieu of Ferland. Or if Ferland was key, how about a lesser prospect?

I believe as it turns out, Fox held much less value to the Flames than we believed. That’s too bad.

I found is exactly no where in the Hamilton trade rumor thread.

Most of the "lot of people" expected more being added on the Carolina side as in Hamilton for Hanifin, Lindholm and a 2nd round pick.

A "lot of people" have Flames homer glasses on.


If it makes you feel better just think that Carolina wanted Valimaki included and settled for Fox.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Fire Brad?



We complained all year about this team and their "give a crap" meter. So in response Brad fires the coach and then makes a trade that sends out a core member of the team who was identified as not giving a cap...and everyone loses their mind.

We got younger, we traded a prospect who wasn't going to sign with us, we subtracted a player who was identified as part of the problem with the culture of the team...like, what the hell do people want?

This is me ...

I went from "oooh that's more than I like" to "this makes sense" given the fact the Flames were told Fox wasn't going to happen.

All along it's two core pieces for one, better balance, they didn't create a hole by trading Hamilton for an elite winger, they added the winger (not elite) and a potentially elite defenseman to fill the hole they were creating.

This isn't a fire Treliving moment for me, it's a thank god he's been extended.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I found is exactly no where in the Hamilton trade rumor thread.

Most of the "lot of people" expected more being added on the Carolina side as in Hamilton for Hanifin, Lindholm and a 2nd round pick.

A "lot of people" have Flames homer glasses on.


If it makes you feel better just think that Carolina wanted Valimaki included and settled for Fox.

That's such a weak argument and one used far too often.

You don't need to be a homer to disagree with people. I said earlier that a trade has to get uncomfortable to make sense or it wouldn't happen. When you see Leaf fans tossing out crap and the whole world makes fun of them its case in point.

The Hamilton for Lindhom start was way too much from Calgary
The rumour moved to Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanafin and I was thinking Calgary had to add.
The deal came down and it felt like Calgary added more than I would have wanted to get it done ... which is often the case in trades.
Fox news tips it back to making sense in my mind.

[Enoch Root]

The organization came to the determination that Hamilton was not part of the solution. They spent a year trying to get good value for him. They ended up getting TWO 5th overall picks - 2 actual core pieces, in exchange for 1. They got younger, faster, and more talented. They have more upside in the core than they did before. They are in a better position with cap management. They got a RHS C/RW who is great in the FO circle.

And some of you are trying to compare the trade to getting Lucic as a return.

Hanifin is Hamilton, 3 years younger, and without the baggage. I am not saying he is as good as Hamilton today, I am saying he is equally as talented of a player, and he is 3 years younger. His trajectory is Hamilton. But a more complete player, without the lazy penalties.

Plus, they got a really talented young forward who went before Monahan in the draft, who the coach is intimately familiar with, and who is just hitting his stride as a player.

I understand the 'whoever gets the best player wins the trade' argument (and have used the statement myself in the past), but let's see who the best player in the trade turns out to be before we make the assessment. Because there is a very strong chance that it is Hanifin, and there is also a chance that it is Lindholm (or of course Fox). Bottom line is that we don't know and won't know for a while.

What we can debate now though, and see first hand in a few months is: is the team better or worse after this trade? IMO,, it is unquestionably better.

This team was soft and undisciplined. He addressed that. It needed more talent up front. He improved that. It needed to be better in the dot, and got that. It got younger and faster. The core got more complete.

And if there was a problem (we don't know, but we could certainly see systems of one), it may have been addressed.