Wine! All things wine

[DFO]

So what kind of collections/cellars do the wino's here have? I've been into the wine thing now for 6 years or so and just hit 200 bottles. I'd say 130 or so are daily drinker quality and the remaining are more premium bottles that we'll pick away at over the next 20+ years.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by station

Thanks!

You raise a good point. I have considered that issue but I'm not quite sure how to approach it given the complexities of climate and weather, especially on the micro-climate level. Anecdotally, my family has been in this area for around 100 years and we've definitely seen a trend here toward a warmer and drier climate. Typically the fruit that does well here are apples, pears, and cherries but we have a few dozen peach trees on this land that were planted 30~ years ago and have been quite successful. Peaches apparently can be an indicator for wine grapes as they prefer similar climates.

I've been trying to identify varieties that will grow on this particular bench of land by comparing weather station data from here to various wine growing regions, mostly in France and Austria. The critical piece to look for is the average temperatures during the time the fruit is ripening and gathering sugars, usually from Aug-Oct. So far we've planted Gewurztraminer, Pinot Blanc, Pinot Gris, Zweigelt, Pinot Noir, and Sauvignon Blanc all of which we are fairly certain will do well here. We'll probably add a few more next year, likely Riesling and another red or two. These are obviously popular varieties not commonly grown here so if they are successful it could change the nature of the wine produced in this area which is my goal. And if the hotter / drier trend continues then who knows, maybe someday we'll be able to grow varieties that they have down in the Okanangan like Merlot and Cabernet.

I would say it definitely could be a good investment but finding the right parcel of land is obviously the most critical element.

Very cool. I would love to be able to continue hearing about progress in this thread and to try some wine in future years when you get to that point.

Chardonnay seems a pretty safe choice for producing good wines regardless of climate change, as it's so resilient and style can just transition as heat units increase. Sauvignon Blanc on the other hand seems a bit more of a gambit as it's a more sensitive varietal with less stylistic variety.

With reds it would be interesting to see what could be done with Syrah that far north. It's another grape that can transition in style. Could go from being a northern Rhone style to a mid-southern Rhone style over the coming decades depending on how extreme changes become, and it's more or less known as the Okanagan's signature varietal.

I suppose also that with so many varietals on 40 acres, if setting up your own winery it's unlikely you'll produce sufficient volume of individual wines to do a lot on the international market, so the choices made now are probably best considered in the light of positioning in the domestic or just BC wine market.

Really cool that you are part of pioneering new wine regions in BC.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Why is it wine and beer threads get relegated to food and entertainment while the scotch thread has always been able to stick in the main OT forum? :/

You want to get banned? Because this is how you get banned!

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Why is it wine and beer threads get relegated to food and entertainment while the scotch thread has always been able to stick in the main OT forum? :/

I already wrote the Moderator about it. I guess they just want to kill the thread and make sure the Trump bickering gets all the attention.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by DFO

So what kind of collections/cellars do the wino's here have? I've been into the wine thing now for 6 years or so and just hit 200 bottles. I'd say 130 or so are daily drinker quality and the remaining are more premium bottles that we'll pick away at over the next 20+ years.

About 550 or so at this point. Still a lot shelves to fill.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by DFO

So what kind of collections/cellars do the wino's here have? I've been into the wine thing now for 6 years or so and just hit 200 bottles. I'd say 130 or so are daily drinker quality and the remaining are more premium bottles that we'll pick away at over the next 20+ years.

I don't really keep much of a cellar for daily drinkers, as I drink them daily ha ha. They never last that long. I do keep a cellar back in Canada though, which is mostly filled with my favourite vineyards from the Okanagan. It's great when I get back to Vancouver for a visit.

For that cellar I mostly just keep wines that I see as having the ability to mature over a long period of time. On tastings, I'm often looking for wines that could be described as 'young'. The result now is that whenever I'm back in Canada I can follow the maturation charts and pick the wines out of my cellar that are at maturity, which makes for a great visit back every time. I've found it's a great approach, as it means that when I'm back I'm now buying wines at their newly released price, but drinking them at their fully matured quality. Also, if I have a great wine that's reached maturity, I know I have to drink it or it's just going to get worse, so there's no feeling of guilt or needing to wait for the right occasion when popping open a really nice top quality wine. The fact that it has reached maturity is occasion enough to justify enjoying it. If you have the patience and the interest, it's a great way to go.

I do wish I could get See ya Later Ranch's Rover out here though. Would love to bring a couple of cases back with me as a daily drinker.

[station]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Very cool. I would love to be able to continue hearing about progress in this thread and to try some wine in future years when you get to that point.

Chardonnay seems a pretty safe choice for producing good wines regardless of climate change, as it's so resilient and style can just transition as heat units increase. Sauvignon Blanc on the other hand seems a bit more of a gambit as it's a more sensitive varietal with less stylistic variety.

With reds it would be interesting to see what could be done with Syrah that far north. It's another grape that can transition in style. Could go from being a northern Rhone style to a mid-southern Rhone style over the coming decades depending on how extreme changes become, and it's more or less known as the Okanagan's signature varietal.

I suppose also that with so many varietals on 40 acres, if setting up your own winery it's unlikely you'll produce sufficient volume of individual wines to do a lot on the international market, so the choices made now are probably best considered in the light of positioning in the domestic or just BC wine market.

Really cool that you are part of pioneering new wine regions in BC.

For sure, if CP folks are interested I'll update our progress periodically.

I love Syrah and if that could work here I would be ecstatic. I'd definitely like to add more reds so I'll do some research on that. Someone else mentioned Chardonnay to me as well so that's on the list to try. You are correct in that Sauvignon Blanc is actually a bit of a wild card and much less common in BC. Worst case is if it doesn't produce enough sweetness to make single varietal it could still be used in blends. The beauty of the test vineyard is it's a low cost / effort way of vetting each varietal before committing to a full plantation. It just takes some patience. Certainly all of these won't make the cut; I would like to end up with around 4-5 varietals over maybe 15 acres which ideally would produce 12-15 tonnes per varietal per year. Which is obviously not Grey Monk level of production but would be enough for a small winery.

Yeah the main goal is to grow popular varietals for local wineries and a secondary goal would be producing a boutique label for the BC market. International market seems too ambitious at this point but you never know.

You seem pretty knowledgeable and you've obviously done some research so I appreciate your input!

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by station

For sure, if CP folks are interested I'll update our progress periodically.

Absolutely, please do! And good luck!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by station

For sure, if CP folks are interested I'll update our progress periodically.

I love Syrah and if that could work here I would be ecstatic. I'd definitely like to add more reds so I'll do some research on that. Someone else mentioned Chardonnay to me as well so that's on the list to try. You are correct in that Sauvignon Blanc is actually a bit of a wild card and much less common in BC. Worst case is if it doesn't produce enough sweetness to make single varietal it could still be used in blends. The beauty of the test vineyard is it's a low cost / effort way of vetting each varietal before committing to a full plantation. It just takes some patience. Certainly all of these won't make the cut; I would like to end up with around 4-5 varietals over maybe 15 acres which ideally would produce 12-15 tonnes per varietal per year. Which is obviously not Grey Monk level of production but would be enough for a small winery.

Yeah the main goal is to grow popular varietals for local wineries and a secondary goal would be producing a boutique label for the BC market. International market seems too ambitious at this point but you never know.

You seem pretty knowledgeable and you've obviously done some research so I appreciate your input!

My friend's family operated Granite Creek near Salmon Arm, which was lost to a fire in 2013. They made a great port wine.

http://www.saobserver.net/news/fire-...huswap-winery/
http://johnschreiner.blogspot.ca/201...ek-estate.html

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I used to think French wine was no good. But after really trying a lot, it's unquestionably the best. Value might not be there for Canadian buyers (exchange rate, import duties, mark-ups etc) but on a pure quality basis. It truly stands the test. Most new world wine is frankly too bold, too fruity, too imbalanced. French wine, first, has the best selection of high quality wines of any country and has the most pressure from the domestic market to produce high quality wines.

In any case, a trip to a french wine region and a deep dive is recommended. I would suggest Alsace, Loire, Burgundy or the Rhone Valley for a week.

I will definitely keep trying - I have certainly loved a few here and there. I have a couple of very expensive bottles that, if truth be told, I bought for the future appreciation so that I could trade them for something I liked - perhaps I will actually taste one (in 5-10 years) and keep the other one back for trade. I would appreciate any suggestions - if you can think of something with big taste, yet smooth drinking...

[troutman]

I don't often like French red wine, but I really enjoy white wine from the Loire Valley. Sancerre is a stunning hill-top town surrounded by vineyards.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancerre_(wine)




Around Riems - Epernay, champagne is cheap and abundant. And the food - oh my!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...rance-s-newes/

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I've always been interested in the studies that show in a blind tests people can't always tell a red from a white, let alone an expensive wine from a cheap one.

You can definitely taste the difference between red and white. Anyone who has had an unchilled white can tell you that.

I used to be able to pick out certain regions and varietals in blends when I worked for a wine company. I can always tell a New Zealand sauv blanc. It has a distinctive smell and taste that is unique to that region.

[username]

Highlander is having their customer appreciation event next Saturday. All wine is at least 15% off with some up to 50 off.

All beer and liquor will be 10% off.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I will definitely keep trying - I have certainly loved a few here and there. I have a couple of very expensive bottles that, if truth be told, I bought for the future appreciation so that I could trade them for something I liked - perhaps I will actually taste one (in 5-10 years) and keep the other one back for trade. I would appreciate any suggestions - if you can think of something with big taste, yet smooth drinking...

It's hard to really appreciate French wine unless you really go for it. One of the best ways to demonstrate the difference between French wine and something like Canadian wine would be to try a bunch of white Burgundies. Get them from different areas, Cotes du Beaune, Macon Villages, Cotes de Nuits, hell try a Chablis if you can get ahold of a decent vintage. Drink those, preferably with a nice food pairing. Nothing incredibly flavourful.

Then go to a Canadian or Australian Chardonnay.

That should get you to understand the innate difference of a French approach to wine making opposed to new world techniques.

The French wine will be very well structured. That means that no one flavour element will jump out, it wont be overly fruity (or overly oak-y) and will have minimal butter flavours. The French will be very dry, much drier than the new world Chardonnays. It'll have distinctive mineral characteristics like chalk or lime or gravel. (which sounds bad but actually quite appealing) Key is that it all works together and it goes great with food.

The new world Chardonnay will typically be very oak forward, have a slick oily texture, have strong fruit elements. Very minimal mineral elements. It'll just lack structure and composure.

You could do something similar with Sauvignon blanc, get a Sancerre and compare it to a New Zealand sauvignon. They'll both be nice wines but the Sancerre shows mastery in its restraint. Again, unquestionably a better wine with food.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by username

Highlander is having their customer appreciation event next Saturday. All wine is at least 15% off with some up to 50 off.

All beer and liquor will be 10% off.

All Locations?

[ricosuave]

Has anyone got one of these?

https://www.amazon.ca/Vinaera-Worlds.../dp/B00P85DRA2

If so, how is it?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's hard to really appreciate French wine unless you really go for it. One of the best ways to demonstrate the difference between French wine and something like Canadian wine would be to try a bunch of white Burgundies. Get them from different areas, Cotes du Beaune, Macon Villages, Cotes de Nuits, hell try a Chablis if you can get ahold of a decent vintage. Drink those, preferably with a nice food pairing. Nothing incredibly flavourful.

Then go to a Canadian or Australian Chardonnay.

That should get you to understand the innate difference of a French approach to wine making opposed to new world techniques.

The French wine will be very well structured. That means that no one flavour element will jump out, it wont be overly fruity (or overly oak-y) and will have minimal butter flavours. The French will be very dry, much drier than the new world Chardonnays. It'll have distinctive mineral characteristics like chalk or lime or gravel. (which sounds bad but actually quite appealing) Key is that it all works together and it goes great with food.

The new world Chardonnay will typically be very oak forward, have a slick oily texture, have strong fruit elements. Very minimal mineral elements. It'll just lack structure and composure.

You could do something similar with Sauvignon blanc, get a Sancerre and compare it to a New Zealand sauvignon. They'll both be nice wines but the Sancerre shows mastery in its restraint. Again, unquestionably a better wine with food.

There are elements of truth to this, but a lot of stereotyping as well.

To suggest that new world wines are all alike in "lacking restraint" or whatever, or that French wines all have this, is silly. Decades ago when wine markets in the new world were really immature the stereotypes of 'oak bombs' and buttery California chards had more truth, but there is plenty of quality and sophistication in new world producers now. Also, there is a tonne of junk French wine produced every year. It's just that specific regions are much more regulated and steeped in tradition than the new world, so their style is essentially branded.

Also, to take Bourgogne as a region for your example and suggest that buttery flavours will be minimal as opposed to new world disregards that Burgundy is the home of malolactic fermentation which produces those characteristics. ML is stylistically characteristic of the region. Not to mention that Maconnais is characteristically fruity. Really, one of the great things about Burgundy is the tonne of variety in style there.

I will agree, it's hard to appreciate nearly any wine, in a sense of understanding and appreciating variety and complexity, without 'really going for it' but that's hardly true of just French wine. Instead of focusing on a country though, better to focus on a varietal. If you like Chardonnay, explore the different styles of it from different regions and producers and price points. Price points do matter because differences in style with Chard are largely attributable to the wine making techniques more than where they are grown, and some wine making techniques are much more expensive than others, meaning that to explore the variety of styles you need to be willing to spend more sometimes, but in the process you'll learn more about the relationship between choices in the vineyard, choices in wine making and what ends up in your glass.

It can be very easy to get sucked in by generalities, but in truth the variety and complexity of the wine market globally makes for a lot of generalities that don't fit well with reality.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Has anyone got one of these?

https://www.amazon.ca/Vinaera-Worlds.../dp/B00P85DRA2

If so, how is it?

Damn that looks nice. I have this and it works well, and for 70% less money too (but I still gotta pour my own unlike that). But that does look impressive.

https://www.amazon.ca/Vinturi-Deluxe...VADVCGF59S0PDR

[Amethyst]

It's nothing fancy, but I picked up a bottle of Middle Sister Pinot Grigio on a whim the other day and it's going down way too easily on a Friday night. Started as an accompaniment to a blue cheese and pear grilled cheese sandwich. Now the food is done, but the wine is still flowing.

[jeffporfirio]

Picked a bottle of a California Red Organic (2012 - Full Circle). Aerated and decanted, not the best tasting wine, but it is the first time I did not have even a mild hangover
I've definitely been drinking the wrong/cheap wines. Will head to Costco later and pick up some of the recommendations posted here.
And, maybe, just maybe there's something to the organic thing...