Similar to the Spacey story with the 18 year old boy, They are having drinks a lot of drinks and maybe a bit too forward he goes down his pants, I'm sure this has happened to many different people and some react differently. Personally I would have stopped him right away and told him he may have got the wrong impression but this guy that was 18 didn't and only left when Spacey went to the bathroom which maybe Spacey thought this guy was into it and would follow him.
He is still a victim but the situation could have been diffused easily but some freeze up.
I don't think you can say how you would react until you are in the situation.
Yeah, it's not the severity of the act, but the severity of the trauma on the victim. Every victim will act differently - some might brush it off too, some may have a form of PTSD, some may make a significant career decision based on the harassment they received, or be blacklisted for their lack of "co-operation". Whether it's a smack on the butt, it's the impact, not the action that matters.
I just can't agree with this. Just because you feel like a victim doesn't make you one. It also doesn't mean your feelings are invalid either.
If I'm at work and tell someone that I like their hair/clothes whatever (I would never do this, just an example) someone that's very nervous or easily intimidated could feel legitimately uncomfortable, scared or take it the wrong way, whereas the vast majority would take it as compliment.
That's not harassment but based on what you are saying it could be classified that way. If something makes people uncomfortable we should discourage that behavior. If someone is very easily outraged, traumatized or afraid of everything their feelings are real to them but that can't be the basis for these accusations, and they should probably see someone to work on those feelings a little bit. If a power imbalance is involved that also changes things.
I understand that you are probably referring to more significant, concrete actions but I think we need to at least have a loose definition of what actions are a problem.
The Following User Says Thank You to AFireInside For This Useful Post:
From a legal point of view, victim impact statements are most certainly relevant to sentencing in a criminal context. In a civil context, they are the main issue.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/10/...ual-harassment
Film distribution company The Orchard has decided to cancel the release of Louis CK’s new movie I Love You, Daddy, following multiple allegations of CK’s sexual misconduct.
...
The TV network FX, which hosts CK’s show Louie and the CK-produced series Baskets and Better Things, told Vanity Fair that its relationship with CK was “under review.” ... Netflix announced it would not be producing the second stand-up special in CK’s two-project deal with the service. HBO announced yesterday that it was pulling any CK projects, including Lucky Louie, from its streaming service. The network also dropped CK from its upcoming comedy benefit, Night of Too Many Stars.
If you think someone breaking into your home and robbing you at gunpoint is worse that having your car stolen, does that mean you're totally cool and okay with somebody stealing your car?
The ability to draw distinctions is what separates civilized justice from mob justice.
I agree. That edit of his Wiki page calling him a rapist is a good example. He's not a rapist. A sexual predator, yes. A rapist, no.
On one hand, I'm thinking "Why the hell didn't these women just walk away or hang up?"
But that is blaming the victim. Which I don't want to do. But I just can't fathom the mindset that anyone would continue to let that happen to them if they didn't want it. Which leads me down some negative thought paths, such as, were they really that disgusted at the time, or is now the time to seize the opportunity to enter the lime light?
On the other hand, I think "If a women in power that I admired started masturbating in front of me, I'm not sure I would be that upset, and I'd either laugh and walk away or see where it goes."
And I guess thats why it is incredibly difficult for women. We, as men, can't necessarily relate completely to these types of situations because societally, we have had all the power forever.
I feel bad for these women of course. And I think I am trying to be a better person by trying to understand and change my mindset to realize how ####ed up its been in our society for women for basically the entirety of our history, instead of sloughing it off as "women being overly emotional".
Sorry for the verbal diarrhea. Just trying to process this current craziness!
I don't think it's necessarily victim blaming to identify what women (or men) could do differently to prevent or limit the degree in which they are victimized. The most obvious one I mentioned earlier is young starlets shouldn't be accepting business meetings in hotel rooms. It's a very naive thing to do, if not flat out stupid. And not hanging up if somebody is wacking off into the phone - yeah, that too is dumb.
Hollywood is making all the headlines for this stuff right now, but I'm with a lot of people that assume this is likely more prevalent everywhere else and it's just coming to light more now. I hope this results in more education for would-be perpetrators, but more importantly, for victims. Bad dudes are going to be bad dudes, so education may not get through to the guys that are going to do their thing regardless.
What I'd like to see is education for women to prevent them from being victims. I'd much rather arm my daughter with strategies and red flags to be aware of instead of hoping a predator doesn't prey on her. I can tell you after all this Hollywood stuff has come out I will be sure to advise her not to take meetings in hotel rooms. Seems obvious, but apparently a lot of women didn't get taught that. Once all these stories come out, hopefully we'll get a clearer picture of what we can do to empower people to not become victims.
Since these articles started coming out, re Weinstein, it's been stated over and over that it was normal to have meetings in hotel rooms. There is so much travelling involved for all parties, it was commonplace.
When Lauren Holly told her story on The Social recently, she also stated that she had no qualms whatsoever when asked to a meeting with Harvey Weinstein in a hotel room, something she had done dozens of times in the past.
I'm a bit concerned that just now Netflix et al are cancelling Louis CK stuff. They all knew about him before this, we all did. The rumours were always there. Knowing they were likely true, why did the work with him in the first place? To make money probably. So they had no problem making money off of someone when they were just rumours, but now they're taking the moral high road and dumping him altogether.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
The Following User Says Thank You to metallicat For This Useful Post:
I guess there was a reason Louis CK used the exact same line like 30 times in his shows....he was funny until he kept repeating himself about whipping it out and jacking off and jixxing every where. Guess he wasn't joking.
Glad these guys are getting called out. This is like Arab spring all over again with the ball continuing to roll....who's next?
I want to address the stories told to the New York Times by five women named Abby, Rebecca, Dana, Julia who felt able to name themselves and one who did not.
These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my [penis] without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your [penis] isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly.
I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position.
I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn't want to hear it. I didn't think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it.
There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with.
I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.
The hardest regret to live with is what you've done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I’d be remiss to exclude the hurt that I’ve brought on people who I work with and have worked with who’s professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of "Better Things," "Baskets," "The Cops," "One Mississippi," and "I Love You Daddy." I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused.
I’ve brought anguish and hardship to the people at FX who have given me so much The Orchard who took a chance on my movie. and every other entity that has bet on me through the years.
I’ve brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.
I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen.
Thank you for reading.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ernie For This Useful Post:
What he did was awful, but I give him a lot of respect for that response. Night and day compared to everyone else’s. He completely owns and seems to understand it.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frequitude For This Useful Post:
What he did was awful, but I give him a lot of respect for that response. Night and day compared to everyone else’s. He completely owns and seems to understand it.
Initially I agree, but I just have a hard time understanding how an adult, especially one as apparently observant as he is, didnt understand his position of power or privilege over these women and what he was doing.
I just dont even know what to say to that. I think hes said all he can say and lets give him the benefit of the doubt that hes sincere. Still. Its hard to understand.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Man I'm cynical. He got caught, he got outed and this is a public relations spin. Whether he is genuinely remorseful, or it this is to merely reduce the heat on him and gain him some sympathy will be decided by his future actions.
Its equivalent to a murderer being found guilty and pre-sentencing turns and tearfully addresses the family about how sorry he is for the harm he's caused, so the judge will go a little lighter on him.
Hey, maybe he gets help, or maybe he starts doing charity and PR work and tries to do something to clean up hollywood.
But this wasn't one woman that he did this too, he had no regrets when he did it. So great that he owned it once the horses escaped from the barn so to speak, but he needs to do a lot more then write a nice statement.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Louis released a statement today, basically owned everything, which I figured he might.
No excuses made either.
At the very least, he's not running and hiding from this like some of the others.
All of this is just so disturbing. It's far too much.
Like I said before CK's acts seem more like someone with a genuine psychiatric issue. I hope he gets help. His behaviour is definitely abusive. It's a shame, as he had a ton of talent.
Man I'm cynical. He got caught, he got outed and this is a public relations spin. Whether he is genuinely remorseful, or it this is to merely reduce the heat on him and gain him some sympathy will be decided by his future actions.
Its equivalent to a murderer being found guilty and pre-sentencing turns and tearfully addresses the family about how sorry he is for the harm he's caused, so the judge will go a little lighter on him.
Hey, maybe he gets help, or maybe he starts doing charity and PR work and tries to do something to clean up hollywood.
But this wasn't one woman that he did this too, he had no regrets when he did it. So great that he owned it once the horses escaped from the barn so to speak, but he needs to do a lot more then write a nice statement.
Yeah I'm more interested in seeing what his actions go from here. I remember when Mike Vick got out of prison after his dog-fighting ring and I was pretty skeptical that he'd actually changed, but the dude actually busted his ass trying to raise awareness against dog-fighting in the various communities where they were prevalent and also did a lot of work with the American Humane Society.
