PP/PK discussion (update 12th/11th) - now with PP snek

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It is a good post. A great post.
But you are comparing a tactic on described on the internet with the actual results.
So no, he didn't "literally" out coach anyone.

Yeah but he gets props for the ms paint skill.

Relevant argument though. Are they using it? I can't tell, because they're never in the zone.

I've noticed teams using 2 bump backs as well. Puck carrier enters neutral zone, makes the bump back pass. Carrier then skates into the zone on the boards, and drops to another forward who either picks up the puck or lets it go to the other trailing dman.

It's pretty effective (or at least it is against us). In this scenario Gio carries puck up, drops to Gaudreau who comes up the RH boards, drops to triling Monahan who then makes a decision to pick up the drop pass, or if the defender coming at him commits to him he leaves the puck for Brodie.

It's incredibly simple and effective, and I sure as heck hope some internet dummy (me) isn't the only one who sees it.

[BigFlameDog]

They get consistently and constantly outworked on the power play IMO...bad habit of turning down the throttle for some reason. Any sort of pressure PK kicks their arse.

Until they figure out they, at the very least, have to keep up the same intensity as 5v5 they are doomed. Doesn't matter who's coaching or what system they run.

[robbie111]

Originally Posted by FBI

Yeah why don't we starting setting up Chucky for some one timers over on the Right side, or Bennett or Monny on the Left, they have a bit of skill in that area..

If you check out youtube there is a Tkachuk youtube highlights video from his London days and quite a few one timers. Surprised the Flames haven't tried this with him on the PP.

[Flash Walken]

Brent Sutter is a hilarious scapegoat for the boondoggle this organisation had been for close to 20 years prior to his arrival.

He turned out to be presciently accurate in his assessment of the team and with hindsight just about worked a miracle getting those teams to 9th place. Letting him and Lowry walk so the GM could hire his buddy who hadnt coached in the league in years was a big mistake.

On the plus side we got another 31 games out of oldballs Iggy.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It's absolutely the systems in my opinion. The same group over the previous two seasons under Martin Gelinas executed at 17%-18% which was about league average. This season, the team is operating at almost half that and are easily the worst. There's virtually no scoring chances created when they're out there and almost no momentum gained either.

This team is tracking to have the worst powerplay from any team since the lockout. Literally, any changes made will be an improvement because they couldn't possibly be any worse than it is right now.

Sounds exactly like last year to me.

I'm not saying the systems are great, but c'mon dude, it is obvious that the players are not executing anything and until they do we don't actually know how good or bad this system is for our group of players.

[mikephoen]

The Flames PP was actually good for most of the season last year. Over the last 50 games of the year (December 20th onward) they scored at a rate of 20.8%. That would be good enough for 7th overall if it was for the whole season.

The first 32 games were utterly atrocious though (and not just on the PP), and it's really hard to dig out of that hole. The PP was just 10.3% over those 32 games.

50 games doesn't prove anything one way or the other either, but it's definitely shows that this team can score on the PP over an extended period. It's hard to believe, but the Flames PP was good for the majority of last season.

The should bring Gelinas back as the PP coach. It's not like things could get worse.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

The Flames PP was actually good for most of the season last year. Over the last 50 games of the year (December 20th onward) they scored at a rate of 20.8%. That would be good enough for 7th overall if it was for the whole season.

The first 32 games were utterly atrocious though (and not just on the PP), and it's really hard to dig out of that hole. The PP was just 10.3% over those 32 games.

50 games doesn't prove anything one way or the other either, but it's definitely shows that this team can score on the PP over an extended period. It's hard to believe, but the Flames PP was good for the majority of last season.

The should bring Gelinas back as the PP coach. It's not like things could get worse.

This is well worth pointing out, but there's a couple different ways to spin it.

The same thing could happen this year as well, no? Either the system get's tweaked or the players get more comfortable playing the current system and we start to see some positive results.

The one thing that needs to change is driving for the puck. It seems the second there's a risk of the puck leaving the zone everyone starts skating back instead of pressuring the puck and trying to force a turnover or bad pass. During that stretch of powerplays where we actually had zone time, it was because they wanted the puck more than the other team. That's how PPs need to be played with all the aggressive PKs team's employ these days.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Brent Sutter is a hilarious scapegoat for the boondoggle this organisation had been for close to 20 years prior to his arrival.

He turned out to be presciently accurate in his assessment of the team and with hindsight just about worked a miracle getting those teams to 9th place. Letting him and Lowry walk so the GM could hire his buddy who hadnt coached in the league in years was a big mistake.

On the plus side we got another 31 games out of oldballs Iggy.

This is quite accurate IMO. Brent in hindsight is underrated.

Don't know if you're using the term boondoggle correctly though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The biggest reason why I have the players stationed where I have is because it utilizes their biggest strengths and creates multiple scoring threats from all sides.

Giordano has a terrific one timer, Gaudreau has the vision to find the open man and the skill to create openings, Monahan has that great shot from the slot and the ability to redirect slap passes, Tkachuk is adept at scoring greasy goals and is a great passer down low. Brodie has the ability to pass well from forehand to backhand and has the quickness to defend if need be.

The beauty of this whole set up is, that if defenders try to take one thing away (i.e. Giordano's one timer), then it opens up Gaudreau on the other side to create scoring chances with more time and space. The current power play spends more time trying to find shooting lanes, getting their shots blocked and having to retrieve the puck then anything which has lead to the current mess that we are seeing right now.

But they're already doing that - with those players.

Really, the only thing you've stated that they're not doing is have 19 in front (on the first unit - which I agree with, he needs to be out there).

[GioforPM]

The bump back can work, but IMO it's they are using too long of a back pass, and the receiver is not moving with speed. So it's execution, not system in that case.

When Johnny comes back a bump back to a defenceman who then atttracts defenders but passes across to Johnny to enter the zone might work. Once zone time is set up, that's half the battle IMO.

[FBI]

Looks like we are 26th in PK now, moving up.. Time to start moving up in PP now.

[Finger Cookin]

26th.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But they're already doing that - with those players.

Really, the only thing you've stated that they're not doing is have 19 in front (on the first unit - which I agree with, he needs to be out there).

Not sure what team you've been watching, but Dougie Hamilton and Giordano are generally the defenseman who are on the powerplay together and normally Giordano is stationed on the left side on the blue line and not where I would have him which is on the right side closer to the faceoff circle and dot. Right now, their powerplay resembles nothing of what I'm proposing. I suggest you watch Washington's 1-3-1 powerplay to fully understand what I mean because it's completely different from what we are currently seeing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Not sure what team you've been watching, but Dougie Hamilton and Giordano are generally the defenseman who are on the powerplay together and normally Giordano is stationed on the left side on the blue line and not where I would have him which is on the right side closer to the faceoff circle and dot. Right now, their powerplay resembles nothing of what I'm proposing. I suggest you watch Washington's 1-3-1 powerplay to fully understand what I mean because it's completely different from what we are currently seeing.

I understand what you are saying, thanks.

Pretty much everyone has been placed at some point where you are suggesting (or on the opposite side). If your point is that you would rather see guys on the opposite side for one-timers, then sure.

But otherwise, what you're suggesting is pretty much what they're doing (and that was my point).

But sure, if you want to argue that Gio on the right side and Johnny on the left side (instead of the opposite, which is what they've typically been doing), then ok sure, and I agree.

[Classic_Sniper]

Glad to see that Dave Cameron reads Calgarypuck That power play goal by Gio today was exactly what I had envisioned with the use of the 1-3-1. Great fake pass by Johnny to Brodie and then going cross ice to Gio for the one-timer.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Glad to see that Dave Cameron reads Calgarypuck That power play goal by Gio today was exactly what I had envisioned with the use of the 1-3-1. Great fake pass by Johnny to Brodie and then going cross ice to Gio for the one-timer.

Looked like a mirror image of an Ovechkin PP goal from Backstrom.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Looked like a mirror image of an Ovechkin PP goal from Backstrom.

That's the goal. Hopefully we're on our way to a 20-25% power play effectiveness.

[Finger Cookin]

Since Nov 21 when this thread was created:

PP - 7/22, 31.8%, 1st
PK - 30/32, 93.8%, 3rd

Thank you FBI for turning around the special teams play.

[Roof-Daddy]

Geez. If your pp and pk percentages add up to over 120%, youre going to win a lot of hockey games.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Since Nov 21 when this thread was created:

PP - 7/22, 31.8%, 1st
PK - 30/32, 93.8%, 3rd

Thank you FBI for turning around the special teams play.

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Geez. If your pp and pk percentages add up to over 120%, youre going to win a lot of hockey games.

And if they add up to only 83.3% (which they were as of November 21), the opposite is also true.

What a turnaround.