Does St. Louis really play a big and heavy game? or is that an old distinction?
They lost Backes and Brouwer this off-season. I don't see a ton of muscle in that lineup. Grossman feels like a huge mistake to me against such a skilled team.
Does every fanbase overreact to bottom level players or is that just a CP thing? Maybe it comes from having many years with so few skill players that everyone had to focus on the bottom of the lineup to be difference makers.
If Grossman playing as the sixth defenceman is the reason a team wins/loses, that is a sad statement about the team. Similarly, if Grossman playing as a sixth defenceman is the catalyst for whether a fan chooses to watch/not watch, then perhaps some perspective is needed.
I don't think this in particular is overreacting to a bottom level player because of how it appears he will be used and what his use implies. He is playing with Hamilton which could mean Gulutzan will be rolling all pairings with similar ice time which is not a great idea given what we saw in the opener. Alternatively, Grossmann will be playing bottom pairing minutes which is terrible utilization of Hamilton unless Gulutzan is juggling d-pairs through the night to get Hamilton more minutes which I've never been a big fan of. I think it's important to have consistent pairings as much as possible through a game so that players aren't second guessing where someone will be or what they will do.
If Gulutzan wants to play Grossmann at home where he can get 8-10 sheltered minutes just to take some burden off of the top 4, fine. This is a game where there will likely be very little margin for error and they are placing him into a set of circumstances where he will very likely make many errors.
__________________ "If the oceans was whiskey and I was a duck, I'd swim to the bottom and never come up, but the oceans ain't whiskey, and I ain't no duck, so I'll play the Jack of Diamonds and toast to my luck..."
The Following User Says Thank You to Jables16 For This Useful Post:
I think you're over-stating and exaggerating, as a handful of people have done to the 9th degree in the last week.
Everyone has been bad trying to learn this new system, and you're fixating on Gio and blowing single plays out of proportion.
Any player in the NHL is currently going to get beat by McDavid. The "pylon" comment was ridiculous, and a symptom of the exaggerating I'm referring to.
Hold him to higher account all you want. I'm just pointing out you're starting to sound like a broken record bringing it up in multiple threads ad nauseam. Including this essay quoted, you're getting your feelings across loud and clear.
To the above. I'm not fixating on Gio because of single plays, I'm fixating on Gio (if you want to call it that, not sure I agree) and a few others because I feel they hold more responsibility for the recent results. Gio wasn't just bad once in that Oilers game and I went off, he was bad all night. His badness that night was potentially highlighted by that one play that I commented on, but if that was the "first" issue with him that evening, then I wouldn't have commented.
Again, I'm focusing on the Gio's of the Flames world because they need to be better. They get all the credit when things go well (rightfully so), but also need to take the brunt of the blame when things aren't going well. The Flames aren't 2-4-1 right now cause lines 3 and 4 are dropping the ball. We are below 500 because Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau and Monahan specifically in my opinion are getting badly outplayed. Yes, I'm willing to accept that McDavid will show Gio up every now and then (along with the rest of the league), great players do that. But I do also expect Gio to win the McDavid battle for us (which for a defensive player means beating him over 90% of the time), more often than not.
Again, Gio's a name, that on average, this board doesn't like to see get brought up in a negative light. Not sure it's the reason, maybe it's as simple as people give him a bank of goodwill because he's often very good for us, if so, I'm fine with that. But it sure brings out the ire of folks when you call him out, as you are proving.
I don't disagree, calling him a pylon is hyperbole for sure. It wasn't meant to be taken literally If that's your main beef with my opinions in a game thread a little exaggeration gets used, I'm likely not going to worry too much about it.
I don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that Giordano has been worse than Brodie this year.
Brodie has never lost board battles like he has been this year. He's never had so many failed passing attempts end up in goals against. He's not nearly as tenacious on the backend.
Part of it might be due to a change in systems, but Brodie has been noticeably worse than Gio so far this year. The only thing I've noticed Gio struggle with this season is getting shots on goal.
To the above. I'm not fixating on Gio because of single plays, I'm fixating on Gio (if you want to call it that, not sure I agree) and a few others because I feel they hold more responsibility for the recent results. Gio wasn't just bad once in that Oilers game and I went off, he was bad all night. His badness that night was potentially highlighted by that one play that I commented on, but if that was the "first" issue with him that evening, then I wouldn't have commented.
Again, I'm focusing on the Gio's of the Flames world because they need to be better. They get all the credit when things go well (rightfully so), but also need to take the brunt of the blame when things aren't going well. The Flames aren't 2-4-1 right now cause lines 3 and 4 are dropping the ball. We are below 500 because Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau and Monahan specifically in my opinion are getting badly outplayed. Yes, I'm willing to accept that McDavid will show Gio up every now and then (along with the rest of the league), great players do that. But I do also expect Gio to win the McDavid battle for us (which for a defensive player means beating him over 90% of the time), more often than not.
Again, Gio's a name, that on average, this board doesn't like to see get brought up in a negative light. Not sure it's the reason, maybe it's as simple as people give him a bank of goodwill because he's often very good for us, if so, I'm fine with that. But it sure brings out the ire of folks when you call him out, as you are proving.
I don't disagree, calling him a pylon is hyperbole for sure. It wasn't meant to be taken literally If that's your main beef with my opinions in a game thread a little exaggeration gets used, I'm likely not going to worry too much about it.
Notice that I didn't say anything when you called him a pylon originally. Or the umpteen posts after that. It was in this thread, just to point out you seem to obsessing over it a bit much. It's not the point in and of itself that brings out "ire", it's the beating of the drum over and over.
I don't disagree he needs to be better (just about everyone does), but I still think you're blowing it out of proportion based on the small sample size - and that you've made your point and then some.
I don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that Giordano has been worse than Brodie this year.
Brodie has never lost board battles like he has been this year. He's never had so many failed passing attempts end up in goals against. He's not nearly as tenacious on the backend.
Part of it might be due to a change in systems, but Brodie has been noticeably worse than Gio so far this year. The only thing I've noticed Gio struggle with this season is getting shots on goal.
I think they've both been bad so far this year. I think Gio's game against STL really stuck out, but overall, I think I agree with you.
Notice that I didn't say anything when you called him a pylon originally. Or the umpteen posts after that. It was in this thread, just to point out you seem to obsessing over it a bit much. It's not the point in and of itself that brings out "ire", it's the beating of the drum over and over.
I don't disagree he needs to be better (just about everyone does), but I still think you're blowing it out of proportion based on the small sample size - and that you've made your point and then some.
Question, are you also taking everyone else to task about how often they bring up Wideman or Grossman?
Just seems odd, that you are getting upset at me targeting Gio in analysis of recent games, when as pointed out he's one of 5 very important folks that need to be better, considering how much time and space on this board gets spent on discussing why Wideman and Grossman aren't better players?
When we lose games because our best players aren't our best players, I'd rather spend time talking about them, versus spending hours lamenting the fact that Grossman, Wideman or Chaisson aren't better players, which seems to be a popular thing to do.
Johnny did take some abuse on Saturday and one of the most frustrating parts for me was that nobody seemed to stand up for him, which is BS.
Hopefully this won't be the case tonight.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion
The Oilers don't need a Giordano. They have a glut of him.
Question, are you also taking everyone else to task about how often they bring up Wideman or Grossman?
Just seems odd, that you are getting upset at me targeting Gio in analysis of recent games, when as pointed out he's one of 5 very important folks that need to be better, considering how much time and space on this board gets spent on discussing why Wideman and Grossman aren't better players?
When we lose games because our best players aren't our best players, I'd rather spend time talking about them, versus spending hours lamenting the fact that Grossman, Wideman or Chaisson aren't better players, which seems to be a popular thing to do.
If I took everyone to task on everything outrageous here I'd have a second full time job. The outrage at our two fringe d-man is par for the course. The contempt for Gio seems a lot more pronounced in your case.
I really thought the 'worry about Gio being a pylon' comment was cringe-worthy / totally unfair and since that time I've seen you dwelling on him a lot... so I pointed it out.
I've said my piece so I'll leave it at that. I really don't need you to explain five more times why you're disappointed in his play over the first five games. Message received.
If that's your main beef with my opinions in a game thread a little exaggeration gets used, I'm likely not going to worry too much about it.
