Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ You obviously know the Harold Ballard / Roger Neilson story.

One of my all time faves - an actual proposal of the paper bag reveal.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Keenan also had the services of prime, dominant Iginla, prime Phaneuf, prime Langkow, prime Cammalleri, semi-prime Regehr, etc.

And he made the playoffs with those teams. Twice. The Flames would rather fire these guys and pay them, than try and let them go further.

I don't care how high the chain of command is, they are the ones who can't honor contracts of coaches who give the team a shot at a cup.

[curves2000]

I am a little surprised this hasn't brought up but what about Brian Burke in all of this??

In various interviews I have seen/read on TV and print as well as STH events at the Dome, the Flames were adamant this year was going to be different and that we were projected to go further than the deadbeat Oilers. It was a VERY positive chat.

Fast forward to now and in the interview with Ryan Leslie on Flames TV earlier this week, the conversation seems to have changed to a list of reasons why the Flames aren't good.

I am not going to pretend that Gulutzan is or isn't the right coach for the job, I don't understand the game to that level to be honest. The results thus far and the level of play REAK of the Flames coaching staff trying hit specific metrics instead of trying to win games. A few bozo friends of mine who are NEVER critical of the team keep pointing to "we are out shooting the other team" as a metric. I can't recall a legit period where the Flames have been a legit THREAT.

The reason why I bring up Burke is because there have been some stupid moves made by Treleving. I find this guy is backwards in the sense he usually gets the big stuff done right but the little things, that mean a lot, wrong. Where is Burke with some of these boneheaded errors ? What is this guy doing to earn his $3 mil a year salary?

This slow start is exactly what killed us last year and I am starting to think its something that is going on behind the scenes cause something isn't right.

People can say all they want about it being early but the truth of the matter is the Flames aren't looking at all like a NHL caliber hockey club. This isn't a matter of us not getting lucky bounces or having a call or two cost us a game. We have 3 points and 1 of those came as a result of a freak play that almost never happens. The season is almost 10% over and we need 95 points to make the playoffs. Lets also not sugarcoat the fact that our rivals Edmonton and Vancouver are playing much better than expected and have gotten some valuable early points.

Its going to be a LONG winter

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Bob used an approach of positive reinforcement and a never say die attitude. I can see why that was more effective in motivating the guys and keeping them upbeat, as opposed to x and o's coaches that are quick to bench guys and don't have the same charisma going for them.

I'm not sure that's actually true. I don't think he was a player's coach from what I've heard.

[GioforPM]

The one coach I question is Sigalet (well, maybe Cameron too but it's so early). Calgary's goalies have generally underperformed and the young ones have not developed as Flames. I don't know enough about goaltending to know whether Sigalet teaches a good system, but the results aren't great. He didn't seem to help Hiller, who was decent enough before, or to get Ortio to a new level (in fact he went the opposite direction).

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The one coach I question is Sigalet (well, maybe Cameron too but it's so early). Calgary's goalies have generally underperformed and the young ones have not developed as Flames. I don't know enough about goaltending to know whether Sigalet teaches a good system, but the results aren't great. He didn't seem to help Hiller, who was decent enough before, or to get Ortio to a new level (in fact he went the opposite direction).

1) "Goalies have underperformed"
if anything, they probably performed at average/decent results in 2014, and seriously shat the bed in 2015. Elliot hasn't been amazing but Johnson somehow looks like a rock.
2) "He didn't help Hiller who was decent enough before"
There's a reason why none of Ortio, Hiller or Ramo are playing in the NHL. They aren't good enough and sometimes good coach or not, there's only so much you can help with.
3) "(Failed to) Get Ortio to the next level/young ones have failed to develop
Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't with goalies. The only goalie churning team I can think off the top of my head is Vancouver since it's such an unpredictable position. Don't know if you can say young guys haven't developed when we've only had Sigalet for 2 years... Which is still only a fraction in goalie development time and most drafted goalies for as long or less than that.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't know if Sigalet is "Great", "Good", "Terrible", but this at least shows that he has worked with Ramo last year, and got Ramo playing decently. If not for his injury, I would guess that a team would have picked Ramo up as a backup, as I do think he is NHL-calliber backup. Johnson has been great, and I regard Johnson as a really good backup thus far, but Ramo would have been a 'fine' backup.

Anyways, here is the Haynes article detailing what adjustments Sigalet helped Ramo with. I have posted it before in the off-season (or near the end of the last season). Again, not saying he has been good or bad, but just the only example I could dig up where Sigalet has helped one of the Flames' goalies improve.

Proof that the adjustment has worked can be found in the numbers. At the end of November, Ramo's save percentage was .899 and six times he had surrendered at least four goals. Since the start of December, he's posted a .930 save percentage and given up four goals in a game only once.

"By being a little deeper in his net now, it allows him to come across his net more controlled, more calm and compact and it's made a big difference in his game, especially in his rebound recovery," said Sigalet. "Even last game, the rebound when Max Domi had that great chance. Because he was a little bit deeper on the original shot, it was a lot easier for him to get across and make that second save."

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/...stment-to.html

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Well, the Flames are streaming their practice in Chicago on their Facebook page right now.

I know that it's just a game day skate, but if anyone is looking for new definitions of "soft", "slack", or "totally not engaged", this is what you should be referencing.

[Ruttiger]

These will be looked back upon as the Eakins Years, in Calgary Flames lore.....

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

I am a tier 1 fan (Season ticket holder.

Aren't you currently selling the rest of your season tickets for the season in the Ticket Exchange thread?

By the way, I may be interested in some...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Well, the Flames are streaming their practice in Chicago on their Facebook page right now.

I know that it's just a game day skate, but if anyone is looking for new definitions of "soft", "slack", or "totally not engaged", this is what you should be referencing.

Its a pregame skate, its all about just getting the legs moving and getting shots, its not much of a structured practice. If they stream off day practices and you see the same thing then there's something to think about. But its a skate.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't know if Sigalet is "Great", "Good", "Terrible", but this at least shows that he has worked with Ramo last year, and got Ramo playing decently. If not for his injury, I would guess that a team would have picked Ramo up as a backup, as I do think he is NHL-calliber backup. Johnson has been great, and I regard Johnson as a really good backup thus far, but Ramo would have been a 'fine' backup.

Anyways, here is the Haynes article detailing what adjustments Sigalet helped Ramo with. I have posted it before in the off-season (or near the end of the last season). Again, not saying he has been good or bad, but just the only example I could dig up where Sigalet has helped one of the Flames' goalies improve.



http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/...stment-to.html

The problem with that example was that, even when he got somewhat better, Ramo was better the year before. So at best he got him to improve over his worst play of the year. BTW, I don't think Ramo is now even backup quality. He couldn't find a job and went home.

[Gord Wappel]

I am a little surprised this hasn't brought up but what about Brian Burke in all of this??

President can wait quietly a bit longer to see if the start is a blip => :"I always had confidence that the results would follow the process - which I made sure was sound"

if its not a blip then out comes "I'm an impatient man and I'm not happy" pressure on Treviling. Maybe Burke takes the reins again temporarily.

Thats the Presidents $3mm/yr job. Otherwise the Owners would have to do it. Owners have another couple of years before any heat on them.

I always liked that Dilbert where the CEOs admit that they just try to theatrically put their stamp on things and then hope for blind luck that their profits happen to go up.

[Alpine Fisher]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM

Aren't you currently selling the rest of your season tickets for the season in the Ticket Exchange thread?

By the way, I may be interested in some...

I am! For STH price too! + Food Vouchers

[FlamesAddiction]

I doubt GG gets less than a full season to work with, but there have been coaches fired with less than a full season before. If someone good comes along, you have to jump on it.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

Based on the Flames Performance through the first 6 games, I have no confidence whatsoever in the coaching staff.
<snip>

After 7 pages, nobody's asked WTH "transgressions thread" is supposed to mean in the title? I do not think that word means what you think it means, and it's driving me crazy to see it in a thread title yet again!

[SportsJunky]

Didn't a previous poster use the word "Transgressions" in a similar way?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am a little surprised this hasn't brought up but what about Brian Burke in all of this??

In various interviews I have seen/read on TV and print as well as STH events at the Dome, the Flames were adamant this year was going to be different and that we were projected to go further than the deadbeat Oilers. It was a VERY positive chat.

Fast forward to now and in the interview with Ryan Leslie on Flames TV earlier this week, the conversation seems to have changed to a list of reasons why the Flames aren't good.

I am not going to pretend that Gulutzan is or isn't the right coach for the job, I don't understand the game to that level to be honest. The results thus far and the level of play REAK of the Flames coaching staff trying hit specific metrics instead of trying to win games. A few bozo friends of mine who are NEVER critical of the team keep pointing to "we are out shooting the other team" as a metric. I can't recall a legit period where the Flames have been a legit THREAT.

The reason why I bring up Burke is because there have been some stupid moves made by Treleving. I find this guy is backwards in the sense he usually gets the big stuff done right but the little things, that mean a lot, wrong. Where is Burke with some of these boneheaded errors ? What is this guy doing to earn his $3 mil a year salary?

This slow start is exactly what killed us last year and I am starting to think its something that is going on behind the scenes cause something isn't right.

People can say all they want about it being early but the truth of the matter is the Flames aren't looking at all like a NHL caliber hockey club. This isn't a matter of us not getting lucky bounces or having a call or two cost us a game. We have 3 points and 1 of those came as a result of a freak play that almost never happens. The season is almost 10% over and we need 95 points to make the playoffs. Lets also not sugarcoat the fact that our rivals Edmonton and Vancouver are playing much better than expected and have gotten some valuable early points.

Its going to be a LONG winter

Why exactly should the team president be under fire? The only move Burke can make as team president is to fire the GM and that's not going to happen and nor should it. You make it sound like you are expecting Burke to be making Treliving's decisions for him and that's not the case. I'm sure Brad consults him on decisions but ultimately the decisions are made by Treliving. I'm pretty confident in that if Burke had as much influence on the GM that Carlye and not Gulutzan would be the head coach of the Flames right now. I don't think Gulutzan is the type of guy that Burke would have even interviewed. This is Brad Treliving's team for better or worse as blaming Burke for what has transpired this young season is silly.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

The Flames players are saying alot with their body language.
TJ Brodie doesnt look like he wants to be here. Giordano seems off. Gaudreau looks frustrated. Monahan looks un-inspired.

Here's a wild and crazy thought, maybe they're just as frustrated by the poor start as us fans? Just because they look frustrated doesn't mean they hate GG and want him fired.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Torture

Here's a wild and crazy thought, maybe they're just as frustrated by the poor start as us fans? Just because they look frustrated doesn't mean they hate GG and want him fired.

Oh c'mon, that would be logical. That cannot be the case.