I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[nik-]

I don't think Treliving is really in a hot seat, but if we waste two seasons largely on his decisions, coaching and goalies, then yeah, he deserves to be. Active on the phone or not.

[Igottago]

Treliving has done a good job overall. But his handling of the coaching change might prove to be a costly mistake. He got most of the right ingredients but gave it to the wrong cook. Unfortunately in sports those big mistakes are the ones that can sink you, no matter what else you do right.

He's not on the hotseat yet but let's see if he has the ability to steer this thing in the right direction if it still looks bad in a few weeks. Might have to make a bold move (big trade, coaching change).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The most substantive post in this thread appears to point to Gulutzan's body language as the main indication he is a poor coach.

What an awful thread. Group of morons discussing hockey without a clue.

Well Treliving hired a coach that Joe Niewendyk thought was a genius and John Tortorello felt would be a good coach, Torts and Joe are proven hockey experts, that is good enough for me.

Throw in signing a 33 year old to a long term contract and I can't figure out a thing he has done that could be criticized.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Treliving has done a good job overall. But his handling of the coaching change might prove to be a costly mistake. He got most of the right ingredients but gave it to the wrong cook. Unfortunately in sports those big mistakes are the ones that can sink you, no matter what else you do right.

He's not on the hotseat yet but let's see if he has the ability to steer this thing in the right direction if it still looks bad in a few weeks. Might have to make a bold move (big trade, coaching change).

This is the most apt description of the situation, posted. Most other posters are getting too caught up in emotion and because of that are going back over Brad Treliving's entire job description and finding every little thing that hasn't worked out and adding it to their narrative.

It's clear to most hockey fans and media that Brad has done a tremendous job in trades and signings, with a few minor mistakes sprinkled in, like any GM.

But you're completely right, if he hires a coach that has the team turn to absolute ass over night and we lose another season that is very bad and could be a costly mistake for him.

But that doesn't also mean that everything he's done hasn't worked and therefore they are all bad moves.



- Taking advantage of the Hamilton situation wasn't a mistake when the whole league wanted in on that (some teams even preparing to offer sheet and lose more than we did) AND were expecting to have to give much more than we did on his contract.

- Holding out on signing Gaudreau when him and his agent wanted to change the landscape on what star RFA's sign for wasn't a mistake, it was just unfortunate.

- Signing Monahan to his deal wasn't a mistake, it was market value.

- Picking up Elliot instead of paying more for Bishop and being stuck having to pay him upwards of $7mil a year next season to keep him wasn't a mistake, it just looks bad because he's had a rough start.



He's made prudent, solid moves (making his mark on crappy FA's his first year when he assumed we'd suck for longer than when did, not withstanding), and I think any hockey expert/GM would tell you that he's built a team that should be playoff bound and headed to towards contender status.

But this coaching decision is looking horrible at the moment.

[DomeFoam]

if they go 1-3 in the next four, do you stop watching? I wanna care so bad about this team but that display last night isn't hockey.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Wait, what?

Treliving is safe? Has there been a more active general manager in the league since he took the position? Has any team been involved in more rumours? What is an unsafe move, trading players for poor value just to take a low percentage shot in the dark?

Unlike Feaster, Treliving is trying to improve the team with every trade, and his trades occur often.

I honestly feel like people have completely forgotten how terrible Feaster and Darryl were as managers.

You can be the best GM in the league when it comes to transactions but if you can't find a quality head coach you are going to be on the hot seat. I think he's done a decent job but this is a very expensive mediocre team he's built and I think there are going to be future issues of his own doing that he's going to have to carefully maneuver around. Things could go south on him pretty fast.

[Flash Walken]

The major obstacle towards the Flames getting Gaudreau signed wasn't some ideological stance on the price of contracts, it was the tangible cap limitations of having a team sprinkled with several horrible contracts. Even if the Flames had been inclined to pay Gaudreau $7.5 million dollars, they wouldn't have been able to be cap compliant to start the season.

Dennis Wideman is on a backloaded contract and the guy is borderline right now as an NHL player. His $5.25 million accounts for 7 percent of the total cap. His no-movement clause makes him doubly untradeable. The $6 million in cash he's owed this season doubles down on his undesirability.

This is the equivalent to having a contract like Nathan Horton on the roster. It actively prevents you from fielding a decent, balanced roster. It makes signing guys like Versteeg and Grossmann a necessity because of their cap hits. The Flames have been here before somewhat, this is Nigel Dawes territory and it's ugly.

Some of this is on Treliving but if you look around the league at successful teams, it's very difficult to find an example of a team finding success with an anchor of that weight on their roster. It's unclear if Management has ever approached ownership about a buyout, but I think it's unlikely. Not being able to get out from underneath Wideman and his contract is probably the biggest problem of Treliving's tenure with the team but it's ultimately unclear how much responsibility for that rests on his shoulders. The second biggest problem was the gap between Giordano and the rest of the roster in terms of production and age. That contract is beginning to look sour in it's first year.

If you look at a team like Chicago, their biggest cap anchors were players like Bikell and even then, he accounted for a smaller amount of the cap than Wideman and didn't have the movement restrictions Wideman does. It cost them a lot to move that contract. I don't think the Flames could afford to pay the price it would take to move Wideman and that can't possibly be on Treliving.

[Tinordi]

You folks can all pipe down calling Treliving out for the Giordano signing. At the time this board would have shot Tree out of the cannon at Foothills Stadium of he didn't resign him.

Sure, it's a bad to awful contract but each one of you were ready to ink it. Meaning cut it with the sanctimony.

[saillias]

It boggles my mind that they went into this season with no replacements for all the forward depth they've lost in the past year. Vey, Chiasson and Versteeg was bottom of the barrel stuff.

Treliving can't really control how Monahan and Gaudreau start the season though.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Even though Feaster brought in the smaller players, he actually made the team faster and more exciting than what we currently have now. BT is just a typical NHL GM who's playing it safe. He's lucked out on some acquisitions; but for some, it's kind of a head- scratcher. For others, especially for goalies, it's just been a bust. Looking back, it just seems like BT is trying his best to erase all of Feaster's brand of hockey and trying to put his brand in replacement. If the Flames weren't in a rebuild mode, sure, BT's branding may work. Things aren't working right now with this ongoing rebuild and the firing of Hartley is still one stinking mess that he's made. What the Flames need right now is a block-buster trade that'll shakes up things, especially on the D. BT isn't the guy who's gonna do it. It'll take a guy like Burke or Feaster to do it and I don't think either will be coming back on a the Flames GM any time soon.

Like Darryl Sutter did, it sure changed things around. Ironically the one piece we have left from that deal, who nobody wants, is one of the better players this year.

Blowing it up is not the answer.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You folks can all pipe down calling Treliving out for the Giordano signing. At the time this board would have shot Tree out of the cannon at Foothills Stadium of he didn't resign him.

Sure, it's a bad to awful contract but each one of you were ready to ink it. Meaning cut it with the sanctimony.

First off that is not even close to being true, there was not unanimity on the need to sign Giordano or sign him long term. Secondly, I would hope that one could hold a GM to a higher standard than that of what the unwashed masses want on their team.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

First off that is not even close to being true, there was not unanimity on the need to sign Giordano or sign him long term. Secondly, I would hope that one could hold a GM to a higher standard than that of what the unwashed masses want on their team.

If Treliving traded Giordano instead of re-signing him, this forum would have been calling for his head more than they are now. Can't appease everyone.

[robbie111]

Don't think Shinkaruk will become half the player Granlund develops into. That was a horrible trade. Still wish they would have moved Granlund to the wing and tried him with Monahan and Gaudreau.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The most substantive post in this thread appears to point to Gulutzan's body language as the main indication he is a poor coach.

What an awful thread. Group of morons discussing hockey without a clue.

Oh the humanity!

Pardon me while I get the violins out to play the soundtrack to your righteous sanctimony Flash. I only wish the players on the ice would put in a similar effort to deflect pucks the way you're trying to deflect away from BT.


The star players who came off career years are playing terribly. Star players who had strong seasons are playing poorly. The pp is terrible. The team is having historic goals against disasters to start a season. Our schedule had us with 5 of the first 6 against expected non-playoff teams before going on a run against more difficult matchups. The team looks lost.

That's all in the thread. Sorry it doesn't meet the apologist narrative you want it to be.

What do you suggest has to happen for the GM to have to account for the performance? And what do you suggest the accountability look like?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by robbie111

Don't think Shinkaruk will become half the player Granlund develops into. That was a horrible trade. Still wish they would have moved Granlund to the wing and tried him with Monahan and Gaudreau.

this would be quite the change in tune on this forum after only 5 games for Granlund

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Oh the humanity!

Pardon me while I get the violins out to play the soundtrack to your righteous sanctimony Flash. I only wish the players on the ice would put in a similar effort to deflect pucks the way you're trying to deflect away from BT.


The star players who came off career years are playing terribly. Star players who had strong seasons are playing poorly. The pp is terrible. The team is having historic goals against disasters to start a season. Our schedule had us with 5 of the first 6 against expected non-playoff teams before going on a run against more difficult matchups. The team looks lost.

That's all in the thread. Sorry it doesn't meet the apologist narrative you want it to be.

What do you suggest has to happen for the GM to have to account for the performance? And what do you suggest the accountability look like?

You going to specifically tell me what the coach is doing wrong that another coach would not be doing to rectify this situation?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You going to specifically tell me what the coach is doing wrong that another coach would not be doing to rectify this situation?

Get his players to play with intensity instead of over thinking every little play?

Scrap the PP that isn't working and try something new?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by heep223

Get his players to play with intensity instead of over thinking every little play?

Scrap the PP that isn't working and try something new?

What does this mean, exactly?

Brouwer is playing with intensity, Frolik is engaged. Is Gulutzan only having one on one meetings with them? Do Monahan and Giordano not speak English, should the Flames hire a Gulutzan to Broski translator for them?

What about the PP isn't working and should be scrapped? What's the new thing they should try?

[JiriHrdina]

So people believe that the Flames need a coach that can convince the players to play with intensity?
These guys shouldn't need a coach to provide that push.
I'm stunned about how some continue to let these millionaire players off the hook for poor execution.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What does this mean, exactly?



Brouwer is playing with intensity, Frolik is engaged. Is Gulutzan only having one on one meetings with them? Do Monahan and Giordano not speak English, should the Flames hire a Gulutzan to Broski translator for them?



What about the PP isn't working and should be scrapped? What's the new thing they should try?

I've said multiple times, they should go to an umbrella.

The current power play setup isn't working.