Where do you see the Flames rebuild at now?

[Bingo]

This may becoming the single dumbest topic I've read on the site in a while ...

what exactly is being argued about?

Nobody knows how young players develop, but you hope your organization becomes one that has a good track record of helping young players succeed.

The Flames had Monahan, Gaudreau, Giordano and Brodie two years ago. They had Backlund who we liked and then a prospect system with some hope.

Since then they've added Hamilton, drafted Bennett and Tkachuk and added pieces like Brouwer and Frolik.

They are deeper and by body count are getting closer to the core they need.

A year ago they had a problem in defense prospects but quickly adjusted that by turning second round picks in two Swedes, signing guys like Morrison and swinging a trade that added Jokipakka.

But they don't know this is all going to work out. And yes as they move down a path things will get more expensive. That's how it works.

Will they succeed in building a contender? I don't think they know themselves, but they are a heck of a lot closer now than they were in June of 2014 and that says something.

A good core with some balance, prospects coming in all three areas.

Not much more you can do.

[Vinny01]

Monahan and Gaudreau are proven elite players that are playing on the 23 and under team at the World Cup. Bennett and Tkachuk are 2 high end young players with extremely high ceilings that haven't even scratched the surface yet.

Giordano is a proven leader and elite 2 way defender. Brodie is a smooth skating 26 year old who seems to get better every year. Dougie Hamilton is a 23 year old right shot, big body, excellent skating Dman with multiple 40+ point seasons.

Those 7 players make quite the intriguing core. The Flames seen to have a solid goaltending tandem going into this season and also have a top prospect who is returning from an injury. The farm also ha several intriguing pieces that could turn out into valuable players down the road.

Backlund, Frolik, and Brouwer are solid veteran forwards who could help this team contend sooner than later but remains to be seen if these guys are going to be with the group beyond the next 4 years when our young star forwards are in their prime.

Personally I really like the group the Flames have put together. They appear to have nailed it with their 3 top 10 picks during the rebuild and are benefitting from former GM's winning the jackpot on a couple 4th rounders.

[Inglewood Jack]

lots of great analysis in here guys, just a shame that it is a result of the thread getting ricardo'd.

my personal estimation on that sliding scale of crawl/walk/run/sprint etc. is that they're at the brisk walk or easy jog phase. young core is developing nicely and on the verge of really blowing things open, but there's still a few nasty contracts on the bottom half of the roster that need replacing with younger, cheaper more effective role players. some people here are saying contention is still 3-4 years away, and that's way too late for my taste. the next 3-4 years are going to be Johnny/Mony/Brodie/Dougie's peak and if you're not contending until after that, you're wasting a ton of your core's best.

[Enoch Root]

thanks for that post, GranteedEV, that was some good stuff

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This may becoming the single dumbest topic I've read on the site in a while ...

This is ricardo on a daily basis. Good for traffic I suppose, but posters like this really drag down the quality of the board.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by RockOnRoberts

Rebuild is over. I'm expecting playoffs the next year or 2 with an anything can happen mentality and then serious contention for 3-6 years after that.

I don't consider a rebuild done until the team has shown a consistent ability to play at a high level again.... marked improvement shown standings wise each season and finally concluding with well deserved playoff appearances. Flames are not there yet.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Stupid

I prefer "Mona".

She was The Boss after all.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This was started by me pointing out that the Flames time was now rather than in 2 years as in 2 years Gio would be 35 and likely declining in skill.

...Because it had absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted or the topic at hand

[united]

I think the Flames are in the two-year transition period from end of rebuild to start of contender. I expect them to contend and probably make the playoffs this coming season, as a low seed, but it's the season after when I think we really see the team take off and become a contender for a number of years. They have too many anchors to juggle the roster enough this year to make the moves required to launch them into contenders right now.


After this season, the team gets some addition by subtraction in losing Bollig, Wideman, Smid, and Engelland, and gains almost $13-million in cap space as a bonus. Whether you include Smid's cap hit in there is unknown, but even without him the team gains roughly $9.5-million in space. All four (or three) roles can be drastically improved in terms of bang-for-buck.

Granted the team will need to re-sign Bennett and once again find a starting goaltender, which will take much of if not all of that money, but it's certainly better spent on Bennett+G than those four. Jokipakka will either be lost to Las Vegas or in need of a new contract which is another significant spot to fill.

At that point the only big red flag is Stajan, at $3.125-million...what happens with him will be tough decision, but he is overpaid considering where he will sit in the roster and his age.


Looking another season ahead, with Stajan off the books, Jokipakka re-signed or replaced with an equal or better #4, and the youngsters reaching the start of their prime years, the Flames should be in the fight for the top seed in conference and remain at that level for a number of years. The key pieces are here, at this point the priority has to be not over-spending on depth players in my opinion.


So I see the long-term priorities as:
Starting goalie - Love Elliott but after this coming season we are back to where we started.
#4 Dman - It could be Jokipakka, but if he's lost to Las Vegas, the team will need to make a prudent acquisition to replace him (or hope a youngster is ready)
#5-7 Dmen - The team needs to fill these spots with cheap but serviceable players. Absolutely cannot be paying $9-million+ combined for these guys. Likely one or all are filled by prospects or cheap veterans.
4th line - Like depth defencemen, the team cannot be paying anyone on this line over $1.5 or 2-million, and certainly not in the 3s. Preferably all are under $1-million, whether that's via cheap veterans or youngsters.

[djsFlames]

Declining in skill?...

I'd get speed, strength, agility. But skill..

Hmm. I guess. It is kind of a bummer when you age and your natural talent declines.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hey you and FDW must have GranteedEV blocked or you just don't bother reading his posts.

Sorry if you did not want to read his stuff but




So if you are looking for a % you can check with GranteedEV

This was started by me pointing out that the Flames time was now rather than in 2 years as in 2 years Gio would be 35 and likely declining in skill.

Really. So if Kylington drops Hamilton down the depth chart, that suddenly makes Giordano or Hamilton the bottom pair? Last I checked there are four players in discussion here. Where they fit in the top four does not affect them being in the top four.

Classic ricardodw reading comprehension, sensationalizing nothing and fixating on the same things.

[RedWinger89]

I see the rebuild on the right track. However, Another missed playoffs and Brad T will likely be looking for a new job.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by RedWinger89

I see the rebuild on the right track. However, Another missed playoffs and Brad T will likely be looking for a new job.

GMs get 5 years to see their plan through. Brad is safe regardless of team results until 2018 or 19.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This may becoming the single dumbest topic I've read on the site in a while ...

what exactly is being argued about?

Nobody knows how young players develop, but you hope your organization becomes one that has a good track record of helping young players succeed.

The Flames had Monahan, Gaudreau, Giordano and Brodie two years ago. They had Backlund who we liked and then a prospect system with some hope.

Since then they've added Hamilton, drafted Bennett and Tkachuk and added pieces like Brouwer and Frolik.

They are deeper and by body count are getting closer to the core they need.

A year ago they had a problem in defense prospects but quickly adjusted that by turning second round picks in two Swedes, signing guys like Morrison and swinging a trade that added Jokipakka.

But they don't know this is all going to work out. And yes as they move down a path things will get more expensive. That's how it works.

Will they succeed in building a contender? I don't think they know themselves, but they are a heck of a lot closer now than they were in June of 2014 and that says something.

A good core with some balance, prospects coming in all three areas.

Not much more you can do.

I just created the thread to see how people see the direction of the team as we are in the middle of the summer and theres not much else to talk about...
I dont see how thats one of the dumbest threads u have ever seen.

[jaikorven]

You misunderstand his meaning...he is referring to the posts prior to his not the actual topic. At least I believe that's accurate.

[Itse]

Yeah it was actually a pretty good thread, for what is ultimately a semantic discussion on the meaning of the word 'rebuild'.

[RedWinger89]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

GMs get 5 years to see their plan through. Brad is safe regardless of team results until 2018 or 19.

I should of clarified. If this season turns out like last, the leash gets shorter. Than if a three peat occurs in 18, he absolutely gets fired. Suppose it's all dependent how they " miss" the playoffs..if they do.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by jaikorven

You misunderstand his meaning...he is referring to the posts prior to his not the actual topic. At least I believe that's accurate.

oh i see. My apologies

[Super-Rye]

The Flames are in an interesting spot in their rebuild, caught between being a rebuilding team and being a contending team.

The rebuild is certainly not done, as they still need to keep adding young pieces at all areas but the core has taken shape.

They had an unexpected season where they went to the second round of the playoffs and followed that up with a disappointing season where they missed the playoffs by quite a bit. This next season should shed a lot of light on where this team is headed and how far off they are from actually contending for a cup.

I've got to wonder what the organizations expectations for this club are for the coming season. Is it still just "make the playoffs and hope for the best"? Or is it more of a "Let's contend for the division and take 2 steps forward after taking a step back last season."

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So if you are looking for a % you can check with GranteedEV

Nope. You wrote it, I quoted you looking for an answer. If you don't want to answer it that's fine, just say so. Don't try to re-direct it to someone else.