[News] UPD: Mason Raymond officially bought out

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I lost all hope for Raymond when he was asked at the beginning of last season if he did anything special to prepare for the upcoming season and he said "no".

Same here.

Not sure which was worse. The fact that he didn't do anything differently, or the fact that he didn't even realize he should probably say he did anyway lol.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I assume they don't HAvE to buy him out now? Guessing they may only follow through if a deal they might have in place comes through and they need the cap space this year, or they need it this year for a UFA they want to land.

If those outcomes don't materialize I bet they don't buy him out. No need to extend this cap hit if it can be done with at the end of the year unless they really need the space this year.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I assume they don't HAvE to buy him out now? Guessing they may only follow through if a deal they might have in place comes through and they need the cap space this year, or they need it this year for a UFA they want to land.

If those outcomes don't materialize I bet they don't buy him out. No need to extend this cap hit if it can be done with at the end of the year unless they really need the space this year.

That's interesting. if they don't have a player target in FA anymore, they could eat Raymond's full cap this year and avoid the buyout.

[Anduril]

Mentioned earlier but the Flames are also doing Raymond a service by not burying him in the AHL when by many reports he has been an exemplary veteran in Stockton despite having a family in Calgary.

[keratosis]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

That's interesting. if they don't have a player target in FA anymore, they could eat Raymond's full cap this year and avoid the buyout.

No, I think Raymond is done with the Flames regardless of what happens.

[robaur]

Isn't there a certain buy out window ?

EDIT:

The Buyout window ends at 5 pm est on June 30.

so Flames can't wait until UFA to see if they need more cap space to fit in a deal.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I assume they don't HAvE to buy him out now? Guessing they may only follow through if a deal they might have in place comes through and they need the cap space this year, or they need it this year for a UFA they want to land.

If those outcomes don't materialize I bet they don't buy him out. No need to extend this cap hit if it can be done with at the end of the year unless they really need the space this year.

The buyout window closes tomorrow. If they want to buy him out, it has to be tomorrow.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by robaur

Isn't there a certain buy out window ?

EDIT:

The Buyout window ends at 5 est on June 30.

so Flames can't wait until UFA to see if they need more cap space to fit in a deal.

I think there's a window, but my guess is it likely is long enough to cover them at least until day 1 of free agency.

Edit: see the response above, guess not.

[activeStick]

So good to have a competent GM behind the wheel. One could argue the Flames are clearing cap space to go big game hunting but I think Treliving is likely doing this only to ensure he has options if any of his multiple conversations make sense on the trade front or his thoughts on any UFAs materialize.

Even with this cap space I'm not worried at all of a bad signing or trade.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think there's a window, but my guess is it likely is long enough to cover them at least until day 1 of free agency.

Edit: see the response above, guess not.

It doesn't extend into free agency, but now with this week long courting period a GM should know if the players he's interested in like him back.

[OzSome]

Flames don't necessarily about the cap hit in buying him out. I think they are more concerned about the signing limit.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Unconditional waivers can happen any time. They are also for the purposes of mutual termination of a contract or loaning a waiver eligible player to Europe.

I stand corrected. I trusted a source that said unconditional waivers could only happen during the buyout period.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I stand corrected. I trusted a source that said unconditional waivers could only happen during the buyout period.

It is certainly the most common as we do not see along of guys sent to Europe of getting their contracts voided.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Flames don't necessarily about the cap hit in buying him out. I think they are more concerned about the signing limit.

I think that is actually the least of their worries. The players they didn't qualify took care of the 50 contract limit and then some, without saving much in the way of cap space (since most of the players not qualified were on 2-way contracts). I don't know how many contracts they have now, but it probably is in the low 40's if I was to guess without going and counting them. Might even be in the high 30's. Cap Friendly is showing 36.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

The only two rationales to this move are:
1) Flames are doing Raymond a 'solid' by buying him out rather than having to demote him back to the AHL again. He has time to get in the best shape of his life, and try to get a PTO for another team with roster space .

2) Flames clearing up cap space for a move soon. Signing Gaudreau, Monahan + UFA. Treliving must feel that they would be too close to the cap, and needed the extra ~2 million for breathing room.

I guess a third rationale is the Raymond's attitude in the AHL has been poor, and the don't want that around the prospects. However, by all accounts, he has been absolutely exemplary, so I didn't include it as a rationale at all.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I assume they don't HAvE to buy him out now? Guessing they may only follow through if a deal they might have in place comes through and they need the cap space this year, or they need it this year for a UFA they want to land.

If those outcomes don't materialize I bet they don't buy him out. No need to extend this cap hit if it can be done with at the end of the year unless they really need the space this year.

They probably do need the cap space right now in any event. Otherwise why would they do this buyout?? Better to have a little more breathing space than be right up against it for the start of the year, especially since they can't get cap relief by having Smid on LTIR until just after the season starts.

I can't see Treliving buying Raymond out if he didn't feel this wasn't absolutely needed and there's no way this would've been announced if there's any chance it's not happening.

Either way, it's happened. Raymond has been bought out. He's done here. That's it. There's no going back on it. He's very much a free agent now.

[bigrangy]

I'm suprised Tre didn't qualify one of the arbitration-eligible RFA's just to open up the second buyout window. I'm not sure exactly how that works though.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I'm suprised Tre didn't qualify one of the arbitration-eligible RFA's just to open up the second buyout window. I'm not sure exactly how that works though.

The trouble with that is that a case actually has to go to arbitration. Once that happens, your fate is in the hands of the arbiter – who could easily give your player an award bigger than the cap savings from the buyout.

I don't blame Treliving for wanting to stay far, far away from arbitration. I'm a bit surprised at how much effort he's making to avoid it, but I understand the principle.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I'm suprised Tre didn't qualify one of the arbitration-eligible RFA's just to open up the second buyout window. I'm not sure exactly how that works though.

There are restrictions on opening that second buyout window.

You have a 48 hour window that starts three days after your last arbitration case is settled (either by a negotiated contract or by the arbitrator's ruling) to make any secondary buyouts. If I'm reading the CBA correctly, the one situation where the second window doesn't open is if a team's only arbitration case was elected by the club for the purpose of reducing the player's salary from his previous contract.


The problem for the Flames with Raymond's deal is that contracts bought out during the second window have to have an AAV greater than $2.75 million relative to the changes in the average player's salary since the CBA was signed.

The $2.75 million number is the required salary for the 2012-13 season. It is adjusted to match the year-over-year percentage increase in the average league salary. I don't know how the average salary has risen since 2012-13, but if it has gone up the same percentage as the cap, it would put the minimum salary for the second buyout window over $3.2 million -- which would make Raymond's salary ineligible for a buyout during a second window.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Do they actually have to buy him out if he clears? What is protocol here?

Can you be put on these waivers and not be bought out?

Probably, but that's not going to be the case here given this statement below.

Ryan Pike ‏@RyanNPike 2m2 minutes ago Mason Raymond WILL be bought out once he clears. We'll find out Dennis Wideman's fate tomorrow.

^^That right there should answer any questions or doubts you, CSW, or anybody else may have right there (if the thread title wasn't enough) about whether or not he'll be back. He won't. He is being bought out. It's happening and there's no going back. Nothing more to see here. Time to move on.

[Buff]

Is it 10:00am that we hear the results of this? Most specific the separate tweets where somebody mentioned we'll hear about the future of Dennis Wideman today.

I'm wondering if Wideman also gets bought out today. IMO it won't happen, but I've been surprised before.

I would also imagine that we'll hear news of Johnny and Monahan's signings today too.