Sam Harris on Orlando and the Response of Obama, Trump & Clinton

[Fuzz]

Holy crap there are a lot of religions. Wonder who picked the right one?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Holy crap there are a lot of religions. Wonder who picked the right one?

Mormons is the correct answer.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not really speaking so much in terms of government resources but more in terms of personal capacity. Something as simple as speaking out against something or engaging in a debate about it takes time and energy and then you can go from there to include community support, activism, etc.

Given that they're related though, can't you pretty much talk about both at the same time and have your position essentially be that middle ground?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Given that they're related though, can't you pretty much talk about both at the same time and have your position essentially be that middle ground?

Probably depends on whether you view criticism of Islam as likely to incite more violence and discrimination against Muslims or not.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

But... no. That's a terrible reason not to engage in legitimate criticism of a belief system. It's a heckler's veto.

[nik-]

I would actually argue that the protection from criticism it gets compared to the other religions makes a hostile reaction more likely.

It's annoying to have someone imply you're racist when you give one religion the same derision you give others.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Probably depends on whether you view criticism of Islam as likely to incite more violence and discrimination against Muslims or not.

That's the kind of thinking that inspired German authorities to try to suppress information about the scope and nature of the New Year's attacks. Do you think, in the end, that hurt or helped the cause of right-wing nationalism?

Anti-immigration and nativist movements believe, with some cause, that their governments are being high-handed and secretive about issues surrounding Muslims and immigration. Every time open dialog is curtailed, it only fuels that resentment and draws more citizens into the anti-immigrant camp. If you don't have any faith that we can debate these things openly, then you don't have much faith in democracy itself.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

But... no. That's a terrible reason not to engage in legitimate criticism of a belief system. It's a heckler's veto.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that this was my point of view, but I'm guessing this is the worry of the people who are trying to counter the criticism, that and I think some of these people truly believe that acting in a way that absolves the religion as the cause is more conducive to integration and the eventual movement away from the more conservative beliefs.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Oh.

Well, #### those people, I guess.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Oh.

Well, #### those people, I guess.

Yeah, I mean I think they're well-intentioned but you're probably pretty familiar with my stance on intent.