Should Treliving Be Fired?

[Swayze11]

I accidentally voted yes, so subtract 1

[Buff]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Actually, if you read the original post I say that he probably shouldn't be fired.

But if we're going to start pointing fingers for last season, the conversation should start with him and not the coach.

So if we're going to fire the coach, then he should be right along side because it was Treliving that failed to address the biggest problem the team had this year - goaltending.

You appear to be assuming Hartley was fired solely due to poor goaltending. It has been heavily discussed and alluded to by media that Hartley didn't have the respect of the players. Is that Treliving's fault?

I recall a discussion with Treliving on FAN960 about Hartley as a coach, and he hinted that he was planning on bringing in his own coach after 2014-15 when Hartley's contract expired, but with the way the team performed he felt that Hartley earned another shot. He obviously felt that this year Hartley did a 180 in meeting the GMs expectations.

[burnitdown]

Fired is too harsh. But this will be a big off-season for him where he has to solve the goaltending issue, bring in some veterans (as we lost Hudler, Jones, Hiller, Russell), and find the right coach.

[polak]

I have a hard time judging him for not predicting that Hiller, Ramo, Wideman and Hudler would all turn into garbage (well Ramo started bad then got hurt. He stays healthy and we're probably not talking about goaltending).

Is he supposed to plug holes before they happen? Regression is expected, the floor falling out? Can't fault him for that. His team made the playoffs last year and improved on paper over the summer. Some of the players just fell apart.

Next season though, I think he'll be on the hot seat if some progress isn't made.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Buff

You appear to be assuming Hartley was fired solely due to poor goaltending. It has been heavily discussed and alluded to by media that Hartley didn't have the respect of the players. Is that Treliving's fault?

I recall a discussion with Treliving on FAN960 about Hartley as a coach, and he hinted that he was planning on bringing in his own coach after 2014-15 when Hartley's contract expired, but with the way the team performed he felt that Hartley earned another shot. He obviously felt that this year Hartley did a 180 in meeting the GMs expectations.

I am basing my opinion on Hartley being fired for last season's performance.

It goes without saying that if we had been better he is still employed today.

[Buff]

This type of impatient thinking upsets me. Hartley had four years. That is a decent amount of time for a coach. General Managers have a longer shelf life than 2 years. Much longer. People are upset that he didn't find a #1 goaltender in October or November? That is creating unfair expectations. You better not be the same person who ridicules the pressure that the media in Toronto or Montreal places on their NHL teams.

But back to the goaltending debacle. How was Treliving supposed to fix the solution so soon? Was he supposed to find DNA that Brodeur left behind in 1995 and instantly create a clone? Was he supposed to go to Steve Yzerman and say, "Look, the fans aren't going to be happy with my goaltending, can you do me a favour and just gift me Bishop in a trade?"

Have some freaking patience before you get out the torches and pitchforks.

edit: it wasn't just goaltending that let the team down. What about special teams? What about the relentless "#NeverQuit" attitude that seemed to diminish greatly.

[Reign of Fire]

Cocaine in helluva drug.

[Poe969]

Last year Harley used the team to it's strengths and won a lot of games because teams didn't know what to expect from the Flames. This year the book was out on them, teams knew exactly what to do to beat the Flames and they did it. Some players had career years but shouldn't that lead to a better record? It's easy to blame everything on bad goalies but he chose which goalie to put in, he coached the players and told them what to do but it was the same thing as the year before and since he couldn't adjust to how teams were playing them, they lost.

Hartley just couldn't/wouldn't change the style of the teams play and the team suffered because of it. If he tried to change and the players weren't listening, it's still his fault because he's supposed to coach them and control them. If the players aren't listening, they're going to keep the players and ax the coach anyway.

His time was up and the writing was on the wall.

BT shouldn't be fired because he's only improved the team. He got better players for the team and gave more options to Hartley. I can't think of a move BT made that I would give an F to.

[IntenseFan]

Originally Posted by Buff

Have some freaking patience before you get out the torches and pitchforks.

Indeed.

Some of the over-the-top reactions to even posing the question on here could benefit from the same advice.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's where you're getting it wrong:

Hartley wasn't fired because of the goaltending. He was fired because of his poor player utilization, resistance to change, and a need for a new voice in the room.

You're right: goaltending was out of his control this year. But there were so many other variables that were in his grasp which he controlled poorly. That's what led to his firing.

Agree. Goaltending was 1 of a dozen reasons the season was over at the quarter pole that Hartley did have responsibility/accountability for.

... and Hartley can't wash his hands of the goaltending situation either. The Flames went and re-signed Ramo at Bob's insistence and then Bob fumbled his management of the 3 headed monster.

Treliving's biggest issue goaltending wise was his support of his coach to add Ramo and inability to get rid of Hiller.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Easy for me to say that I would have made a move during the season when it was clear that none of the 3 were capable of the #1 job. In reality though, that decision is what a GM is paid to evaluate and paid to do. He made his evaluation, made his decision, and it turned out terribly.

Which is why i don't think the coach should bear the responsibility on the decision.

It is a dumb thread, and you seem completely devoid of the possibility that it isn't so much what Hartley did or didn't do but rather the management feeling someone else might be a better fit for the job.

This is just brutal logic on your part. Way, way too early in the rebuild to judge anything the GM has done, let alone suggest he be fired for it.

[ricardodw]

Trevling has one more year... If he puts out a team that is close to the top of the salary cap and does not make the playoffs then he will rank in the bottom of the GM ladder.

14 teams do not make the playoffs.... 4 teams are within 3 pts of the last team to make the playoffs.

10 teams did BAD.

5 of the BAD teams had more than 8M cap space left over ie they were rebuilding.

Any GM that spends to the cap and finishes in the bottom 6 needs to be fired.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by IntenseFan

The Flames seem to have transitioned into win-now mode again and the feeling from the front office appears to signal they believe they have hacked or shortened the rebuild (for the record I disagree).

If we are back in win-now mode, we have to evaluate the GM on that basis. So even if the feeling is that he should be given at least another year to prove himself, the question is reasonable given the shift in emphasis.

Where exactly did you see we are in win-now mode? Because all I've heard from the Flames is words like ''patience'', ''it's a process'', ''we're not done yet'', ''work to be done'', etc. Sounds to me like the rebuild is still very much in full swing.

The day the BT starts trading our draft picks for immediate help when weare close to the top of the standings is the day I'll believe we are in win-now mode. As this last season proved, we aren't anywhere close.

So no I don't think Treliving should be judged based on that assertion. Judge him on how he's done rebuild-wise. In that regards, he's done a damn fine job. But to judge his work because we are suddenly in win-now mode? Hell no, we aren't close to that.

[dino7c]

Probably a good idea to let a GM at least hire their own coach before firing them

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Any GM that spends to the cap and finishes in the bottom 6 needs to be fired.

Cause who needs context right?

Good lord you live life with tunnel-vision.

[Looch City]

You get fired, you get fired, everybody gets fired!!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Trevling has one more year... If he puts out a team that is close to the top of the salary cap and does not make the playoffs then he will rank in the bottom of the GM ladder.

14 teams do not make the playoffs.... 4 teams are within 3 pts of the last team to make the playoffs.

10 teams did BAD.

5 of the BAD teams had more than 8M cap space left over ie they were rebuilding.

Any GM that spends to the cap and finishes in the bottom 6 needs to be fired.

come on now...he signed Stajan? Wideman? traded for Jones? need to give the guy a few years. I know you like to stir it up but seriously use your brain

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It is a dumb thread, and you seem completely devoid of the possibility that it isn't so much what Hartley did or didn't do but rather the management feeling someone else might be a better fit for the job.

This is just brutal logic on your part. Way, way too early in the rebuild to judge anything the GM has done, let alone suggest he be fired for it.

bunk.

No one can credibly state that Hartley is let go today if the team makes the playoffs or contends for a playoff spot.

And the #1 reason for that not happening is the goaltenders.

[The Professor]

What? No.

[undercoverbrother]

KC I gotta say your commitment is impressive.