"Prognosis is not really good" on NHL players going to 2018 Olympics

[pseudoreality]

So who does Canada send if there are no NHL players available? Junior players? Older college players? Guys playing in Europe? Could I try out?

[Resolute 14]

Probably a mixture of fringe NHL guys and AHLers - with their teams' permission, of course.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

It's interesting to see the opinions from fans on this. I wonder if it's an age breakdown. I'm old enough to remember the Olympics without NHL players very vividly, and I couldn't careless if they go to the Olympics or not. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy it if it happens, but as long as we have one best on best tourney every 4 years (World Cup is fine by me) I'd be happy.

In fact, I think I'd prefer a World Cup. Doesn't interrupt the NHL season, and gives me another event to look forward to as I'd still enjoy the Olympics without NHL Hockey.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I think this has more to do with the fact that the next 2 Winter Olympics are in Asia (how did that happen by the way??).

Korea lost two very close races with Vancouver and Sochi (both times, they actually won the first round of voting, but lost on the second ballot), so they were seen as due to win the 2018 bid.

For 2022, Munich was an early favourite, but they pulled their bid after they lost public support. Other European cities, like Oslo and Stockholm also considered bidding, but eventually pulled out (Oslo actually submitted a bid, but retracted it before the final vote). It ended up being a two city race and Beijing won by 4 votes.

[polak]

I hope some players have the balls to tell the NHL to go #### themselves. I think some of the European players might.

International hockey is such a mess thanks to the NHL being bigger than the IIHF.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by polak

I hope some players have the balls to tell the NHL to go #### themselves. I think some of the European players might.

International hockey is such a mess thanks to the NHL being bigger than the IIHF.

Thank godness it is, and no, you won't see any NHL players risking their NHL salaries with no insurance and their standing with their NHL clubs and therefore a shot at a Stanley Cup to go to the Olympics. At least not with the NA players, maybe you'll see a handful of Euro's do it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by polak

I hope some players have the balls to tell the NHL to go #### themselves. I think some of the European players might.

International hockey is such a mess thanks to the NHL being bigger than the IIHF.

Thats like you risking your whole career for a hobby. No one does that.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It's more the IOC at this point than Fasel. The NHL already made it clear it didn't think it was getting much value from the Olympics before the IOC decided it would no longer cover various transportation and insurance costs. From the NHL's perspective, a bad deal just got much worse. The IIHF is sort of caught up in the middle, but could no doubt help the process along by agreeing to pay those costs itself.

Why would the IIHF pay that money? It's not their tournament.

Plus the IIHF is not a rich organization AFAIK. Money in hockey is mostly in local leagues, and even with the world championships and other international tournaments, the local organizers take home a large chunk of the income.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

So who does Canada send if there are no NHL players available? Junior players? Older college players? Guys playing in Europe? Could I try out?

Not Dustin Boyd, he decided he was Kazakhstani.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats like you risking your whole career for a hobby. No one does that.

Risk your career? These guys can go to any league they want and they'll be welcomed with open arms. You don't think Ovechkin could go back to the KHL for the same money? I know that most of the North American players won't care or have the balls to do anything but hopefully some of the more brash European players do. It only takes the risk of losing 3 or 4 big talents to have an impact.

It's stupid. I hope the IIHF flexes what little muscle they have and blocks some NHL transfer agreements or something. The NHL's runs every idea into the ground. This world cup will never come close to the same level of international recognition as the Mens Ice Hockey tournament had at the Olympics as long as the NHL is running show.

It's going to be great when the only people who care about who won the only international "best on best" ice hockey tournament are Canadians and Fins. It'll be just like the World Juniors.

[Resolute 14]

Ovechkin could. Most could not. And any player who leaves their team without approval would find themselves suspended immediately.

And Polak, you're being dramatic at the expense of logic, again. The IIHF needs the NHL a hell of a lot more than the NHL needs the IIHF.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Ovechkin could. Most could not. And any player who leaves their team without approval would find themselves suspended immediately.

And Polak, you're being dramatic at the expense of logic, again. The IIHF needs the NHL a hell of a lot more than the NHL needs the IIHF.

I think almost any player that is good enough to make the top lines of these Olympic teams would be able to find work as they please. Again, it only takes 3 or 4 big names to leave en masse before it's all over ESPN that the NHL can no longer retain top talent.

If the NHL doesn't go to the Olympics, that leaves one tournament that uses NHL players? If they lose NHL'ers at the Olympics the IIHF can't lose much from shaking the tree at that point. Convince some of the bigger nations to hold the fort with the IIHF with the benefit of keeping their best players in the domestic league and you might be able to convince the NHL to change their mind. Especially if they actually hold the fort for a few years and the NHL starts losing real talent to the other leagues.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by polak

I think almost any player that is good enough to make the top lines of these Olympic teams would be able to find work as they please. Again, it only takes 3 or 4 big names before it's all over ESPN that the NHL can no longer retain top talent.

You are smart enough to know that nobody ESPN would care about - the Crosbys, Kanes, Eichels and the like - would not even entertain the thought of going to play in the KHL just because their employer chose not to attend a tournament.

If the NHL doesn't go to the Olympics, that leaves one tournament that uses NHL players? If they lose NHL'ers at the Olympics the IIHF can't lose much from shaking the tree at this point.

It has literally nothing to gain. What do you think the NHL would actually do if the IIHF tried sabre-rattling, aside from laugh it off?

Convince some of the bigger nations to hold the fort with the IIHF with the benefit of keeping their best players in the domestic league and you might be able to convince the NHL to change their mind. Especially if they actually hold the fort for a few years and the NHL starts losing real talent to the other leagues.

The "bigger nations" are already ineffectively trying to get transfer fees to the NHL raised because they have no hope of keeping their own talent. The lure of the NHL's big money is not something they can match.

But you go ahead, Polak. You tell the leagues and national associations that are already beholden to the NHL that now's the time to fight. I'm sure the NHL would really be quaking in its boots when those players still come to the NHL because of the money, while the NHL becomes responsible for no return fees because of the lack of a transfer agreement.

Like, that's just brilliant, man.


Or, perhaps you should consider the fact that the IOC is demanding the NHL take all the risk while it gets all of the benefit, and realize that it isn't the NHL that is the bad guy here.

[polak]

No I understand why the NHL is doing what they're doing. I'm just saying that if they get their way, they will ruin international ice hockey just like they ruin every other special event. Hence why I hope that the IIHF has some sabre rattling left in them because it's our only shot at a proper freaking tournament where the individual nations can pick and run their own teams independent of one domestic leagues decisions and best interests. If the IIHF doesn't do anything, they'll pretty much lose all relevance in the hockey world. If they're not running the best tournaments, or sanctioning the best leagues than how are they going to survive? They need the Olympics and I hope they make some sort of play to try and make it happen. If that means convincing the IOC to pay for insurance or whatever than that's fine. If that means bribing Ovechkin and other Euro stars to leave the league and play in the KHL than fine (bribing was a joke, fyi)

Major league sports and International sports never gel. This is why all international events for the 4 major sports are a total joke.

[Resolute 14]

What other special event have they ruined?

Also, if the IOC is taking a bad deal and making it worse, and the IIHF isn't really doing anything at all about it, how exactly is it the NHL that is "ruining international ice hockey"?

Also, the IIHF has never ran the best tournaments (Canada Cup, for instance, was run by Hockey Canada) nor has it ever sanctioned the best league. The NHL has always stood apart. You have a romanticized view of the IIHF that has never existed in reality.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by polak

I hope some players have the balls to tell the NHL to go #### themselves. I think some of the European players might.

International hockey is such a mess thanks to the NHL being bigger than the IIHF.

I'm pretty sure not only would the NHL and NHLPA not allow this, but Hockey Canada and USA Hockey would never pick any NHL players for their teams without NHL/NHLPA consent.

Besides, it'd just be reckless and stupid on the players part to do it. You think they would risk their careers and millions of dollars on this? I'm guessing the NHL can sue any players that go for breach of contract. And what if the player gets injured? I'm guessing the team can then just end their contracts immediately.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by polak

No I understand why the NHL is doing what they're doing. I'm just saying that if they get their way, they will ruin international ice hockey just like they ruin every other special event. Hence why I hope that the IIHF has some sabre rattling left in them because it's our only shot at a proper freaking tournament where the individual nations can pick and run their own teams independent of one domestic leagues decisions and best interests. If the IIHF doesn't do anything, they'll pretty much lose all relevance in the hockey world. If they're not running the best tournaments, or sanctioning the best leagues than how are they going to survive? They need the Olympics and I hope they make some sort of play to try and make it happen. If that means convincing the IOC to pay for insurance or whatever than that's fine. If that means bribing Ovechkin and other Euro stars to leave the league and play in the KHL than fine (bribing was a joke, fyi)

Major league sports and International sports never gel. This is why all international events for the 4 major sports are a total joke.

I might have missed it in an earlier post, but why are you concerned about the IIHF having a role to play? You've pointed out that they don't really do anything, then to me made the jump from there to say that it's a bad thing that they don't.

What's your reasoning that it's bad that they don't? Is it just you've seen the Soccer model where FIFA plays the role you do and assume that has to be the right business model and want IIHF to play said role? If so, I'd suggest to you that world of soccer is vastly different in pro structure and size that I'm not sure the FIFA model would be what works best or is even required for international hockey. Unlike in Soccer, for the most part you have all of the worlds best players playing in one league (with the KHL making a very weak push, to date, in my opinion to add a second option). In soccer you have way more countries, way more participants and multiple top end leagues distributing the top talent across the globe.

But as I finish writing I realize I just went on about something I'm not even sure is your opinion, so I'll stop and apologies for doing so.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

What other special event have they ruined?

Also, if the IOC is taking a bad deal and making it worse, and the IIHF isn't really doing anything at all about it, how exactly is it the NHL that is "ruining international ice hockey"?

Also, the IIHF has never ran the best tournaments (Canada Cup, for instance, was run by Hockey Canada) nor has it ever sanctioned the best league. The NHL has always stood apart. You have a romanticized view of the IIHF that has never existed in reality.

Winter Classic, World Cup, All Star game, NHL awards, seriously, any good idea that the NHL gets their hands on turns to garbage or dies within a few years. Are you excited for any of those events? Do you think there's hordes of Swedes and Czechs flying in to watch the U-23 team play Sweden?

The IIHF acts in the interest of getting as many people in the world interested in hockey as possible. What they wouldn't do is relegate 46 countries in Europe to one team ran by one of the domestic leagues who doesn't even operate in any of those countries. They would run a proper world cup. A proper Olympics and who knows, under their guidance, with proper levels of tournaments you might see more and more teams join the competitive ranks i.e. Switzerland.

Do you think the NHL is going to invest anything in holding a Div 2 world cup in Austria? or better yet a Div 3 world cup in Australia? Not a chance, but now since the NHL is taking the biggest money makers away from the IIHF, who is going to invest in hockey in those areas?

I know for people who have only ever experienced the NHL or only have interests in the 4 Major North American sports (not saying you are one of those people, just in general) that it's easy to assume that this is the best way to run things but it's not. There is nothing better than proper international tournaments. Ones that are actually relevant around most of the world not just in Canada, Finland and can't even get a blurb on the last page of american magazines under the Viagra ads.

The NHL skipping Olympics and running their own farce of a best on best tournament is Terrible for the growth of hockey. Full stop.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Itse

Why would the IIHF pay that money? It's not their tournament.

Plus the IIHF is not a rich organization AFAIK. Money in hockey is mostly in local leagues, and even with the world championships and other international tournaments, the local organizers take home a large chunk of the income.

No, but as the international ruling body I do believe that they get profit-sharing from the Olympics.

Originally Posted by polak

Risk your career? These guys can go to any league they want and they'll be welcomed with open arms. You don't think Ovechkin could go back to the KHL for the same money? I know that most of the North American players won't care or have the balls to do anything but hopefully some of the more brash European players do. It only takes the risk of losing 3 or 4 big talents to have an impact.

It's stupid. I hope the IIHF flexes what little muscle they have and blocks some NHL transfer agreements or something. The NHL's runs every idea into the ground. This world cup will never come close to the same level of international recognition as the Mens Ice Hockey tournament had at the Olympics as long as the NHL is running show.

It's going to be great when the only people who care about who won the only international "best on best" ice hockey tournament are Canadians and Fins. It'll be just like the World Juniors.

1. Not if they get injured and cant continue to play or it significantly impacts their abilities at which point their insurance doesnt cover them and they lose their NHL Salaries for Material Breach.

2. The IIHF has no muscle because they have no money. If a player can choose between the NHL and anything else they choose the NHL 12 times out of 10.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by polak

Winter Classic, World Cup, All Star game, NHL awards, seriously, any good idea that the NHL gets their hands on turns to garbage or dies within a few years. Are you excited for any of those events? Do you think there's hordes of Swedes and Czechs flying in to watch the U-23 team play Sweden?

I'm sorry, but "Polak hates everything" is not evidence of an event being "ruined".

The Winter Classics are the highest rated regular season games in the US. The World Cup has never been held in this format before. The All-Star Game is a joke in every league. As are Award shows.

They all make a lot of money for the league though.

The IIHF acts in the interest of getting as many people in the world interested in hockey as possible. What they wouldn't do is relegate 46 countries in Europe to one team ran by one of the domestic leagues who doesn't even operate in any of those countries. They would run a proper world cup. A proper Olympics and who knows, under their guidance, with proper levels of tournaments you might see more and more teams join the competitive ranks i.e. Switzerland.

The IIHF, like the NHL, has a long history of acting in its own financial self-interest. Which is a big reason why Canada's boycott of the IIHF beginning in 1968 was so damned effective. It cut the world body's funding off right at the knees. The IIHF isn't nearly as dependent on Canada today, but its primary goal is still chasing dollars. Why do you think the World Juniors went from being held periodically in Canada to every three years to every two? Because we make them gobs of money.

Do you think the NHL is going to invest anything in holding a Div 2 world cup in Austria? or better yet a Div 3 world cup in Australia? Not a chance, but now since the NHL is taking the biggest money makers away from the IIHF, who is going to invest in hockey in those areas?

The NHL is taking away one of the IIHF's biggest money makers? Funny, last I heard, there would still be an Olympic hockey tournament with or without the NHL.

Also, odds are that the World Championship is the IIHF's biggest money maker. They don't have to share those dollars with the IOC.

I know for people who have only ever experienced the NHL or only have interests in the 4 Major North American sports (not saying you are one of those people, just in general) that it's easy to assume that this is the best way to run things but it's not. There is nothing better than proper international tournaments. Ones that are actually relevant around most of the world not just in Canada, Finland and can't even get a blurb on the last page of american magazines under the Viagra ads.

On this point, I agree with you. I just choose to focus my blame where it belongs: The IOC.

The NHL skipping Olympics and running their own farce of a best on best tournament is Terrible for the growth of hockey. Full stop.

The NHL doesn't give a flying F about the growth of hockey. Full stop. People need to stop pushing this narrative.

The NHL cares about growing its business. That very often coincides with growing hockey, given the NHL is the biggest and most important league on the planet. But there are times where the two end up at cross purposes. And when that happens, the league will put its own interests first.

The NHL simply is not a charity. It is a business. So too is the IOC. And the NHL is making it clear that if the IOC wants its business, the IOC needs to negotiate.