What will Colborne's new contract be?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm not saying he can't be better but I'm saying it should be viewed as unlikely.

There are about 5 posters on this forum whose opinion means nothing to me. You are one of them (and not just because of this thread).

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There are about 5 posters on this forum whose opinion means nothing to me. You are one of them (and not just because of this thread).

Don't leave the other four hanging!

[GranteedEV]

I posted this a while back:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If the cap is 70M, and you've got 23 players that means your average salary is around about 3M.

For a forward, that "average" is probably a player who's somewhere between a 3rd and 2nd liner. For a Dman, that's probably between a #5 and a #4. Mikael Backlund perhaps, who signed for 3.575 is a good example - There's a skew in his pay because centers tend to be worth more than wingers.

From a dollars perspective your big money should be tied up in:

2 centers
3 defensemen
~3 wingers
1 goalie

and then a third center that makes more than the other five bottom 6 players as well as a fourth defenseman in that same boat.

Let's say your goalie makes 5M a year.

Your top 3 D probably make about 20M a year. 8 for a #1, 6.5 for a #2, for a 5.5 for a #3

Your top 2 centers probably combine for 12M or so, though it can be higher.

Your top 3 wingers, let's assume they make 5.5x3 = 16.5.

That third center and fourth D combine for 7M if they're on Backlund-esque deals.

Okay, so where does that leave us? 60.5M in used cap space. We'll round that down to 60.

So 10M in cap space to pay:

1 backup goalie. - 1M?
3 more bottom D. - .7 (ELC) x 3
3 more top 9 wingers - 2.2 for a Bouma + 1.1 x 2
5 more bottom line forwards - .7 x 5

That puts you right at the cap.

How does that work out for the Flame? We have:
17.15M tied up in our top 3 D
I would reasonably expect Bennett+Monahan will make ~12.5M by the end of next season.
Gaudreau alone should makes 7.5M
Frolik makes 4.3M
We are desperately searching for one more true top 6 winger worth that salary. 6M is not an unrealistic pay.
Backlund makes 3.575M
We're looking for a #4D still. But we need to keep ~4M in room open for one as it's a huge part in roster construction.
We're also looking for a #1G still. But we need to keep ~5M open for that, again.

So where does that leave us in flexibility from my plan? 60.5 in cap that should be tied up in those important positions, and that alotment leaves us at ~60M. That's not a lot of wiggle room if you focus on filling out the areas of need ahead of the areas of luxury.

If the plan is to pay Colborne in the range of 2.2M or so, you have to get rid of Bouma to avoid overspending on the bottom of your roster.

You just can't keep banking on a rising cap, that's for sure.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Don't leave the other four hanging!

Everybody thank him if you're one of those other four and proud of it

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Everybody thank him if you're one of those other four and proud of it

I'm glad that you're embracing it. Also glad that you and Pepsi have become friends. I hope this can be a bonding experience for you two.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Itse that's very well written, good on you for taking the time.

Thanks, although I had to correct the list because I forgot to check the IR

It really doesn't tell the whole story though. Every team has top-6 players making under 2 mil as well due to entry level contracts.

4 of the 5 forwards making more than 2mil either play bottom-6 or AHL.

Yup. That last part is an issue. Now, Backlund might very well still play mostly a top 6 role next season, and with Bennet on his ELC it's not much of a problem, but the season after that is going to be a problem. Maybe an expansion draft will help us out

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There are about 5 posters on this forum whose opinion means nothing to me. You are one of them (and not just because of this thread).

Do you really believe anyone cares what opinion you value or not? No need to post that in this thread.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Itse

Thanks, although I had to correct the list because I forgot to check the IR



Yup. That last part is an issue. Now, Backlund might very well still play mostly a top 6 role next season, and with Bennet on his ELC it's not much of a problem, but the season after that is going to be a problem. Maybe an expansion draft will help us out

It's going to be an interesting situation regarding how the expansion draft will play out for the Flames, but I think it will hurt most other teams more than the Flames due to the current depth of bottom 6 forwards and lack of top-6 forwards.

The Flames won't have the 3rd most expensive D for much longer. Once we shed players like Wideman, Smid, Stajan, Raymond, Engelland(he's been good but JokiPakka is younger and cheaper) we'll have the room to pay our top-6.

And I think there's room left over for Colborne at 2 mil for 2-3 years.

Anyone can feel free to offer an actual alternative player with a realistic salary that can replace what Colborne can currently contribute on the 3rd line. Keep in mind you're having to either give up assets or overpaying for a UFA.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

It's going to be an interesting situation regarding how the expansion draft will play out for the Flames, but I think it will hurt most other teams more than the Flames due to the current depth of bottom 6 forwards and lack of top-6 forwards.

Agreed.

Once we shed players like Wideman, Smid, Stajan, Raymond, Engelland(he's been good but JokiPakka is younger and cheaper) we'll have the room to pay our top-6.

Shedding overpaid players is a lot easier said than done though. Unless of course you're looking past next season, which is when all of those contracts excepts Stajans are done.

Engelland I think will have takers, but that's also because he's the least overpaid of the bunch.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There are about 5 posters on this forum whose opinion means nothing to me. You are one of them (and not just because of this thread).

Please stop insulting posters.

[thymebalm]

Locking Colborne down long term just seems to me like having one less piece of the puzzle to have to find somewhere else.

You hope he takes a hometown discount and goes for a 4x2.0M contract. Use him as your forth line center knowing you can put him on the wing or in the shootout. I don't really see anything wrong with Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Colborne down the middle.

Salary is a challenge, but I see moving out Stajan, Raymond, Bollig and to a lesser extent Engelland as the cap solution here, not skimping on a player who seems to be filling a need here.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Locking Colborne down long term just seems to me like having one less piece of the puzzle to have to find somewhere else.

You hope he takes a hometown discount and goes for a 4x2.0M contract. Use him as your forth line center knowing you can put him on the wing or in the shootout. I don't really see anything wrong with Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Colborne down the middle.

Salary is a challenge, but I see moving out Stajan, Raymond, Bollig and to a lesser extent Engelland as the cap solution here, not skimping on a player who seems to be filling a need here.

I agree mostly. Not really sure about a 4 year contract, but don't have a problem with a 2-3 year term. In 2 seasons a 3rd line of Colborne - Backlund - Frolik could be one of, not the best 3rd line in the league. That is of course if Bennett becomes a fulltime 2nd line center and we find a couple of RW for the top 6.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I posted this a while back:



How does that work out for the Flame? We have:
17.15M tied up in our top 3 D
I would reasonably expect Bennett+Monahan will make ~12.5M by the end of next season.
Gaudreau alone should makes 7.5M
Frolik makes 4.3M
We are desperately searching for one more true top 6 winger worth that salary. 6M is not an unrealistic pay.
Backlund makes 3.575M
We're looking for a #4D still. But we need to keep ~4M in room open for one as it's a huge part in roster construction.
We're also looking for a #1G still. But we need to keep ~5M open for that, again.

So where does that leave us in flexibility from my plan? 60.5 in cap that should be tied up in those important positions, and that alotment leaves us at ~60M. That's not a lot of wiggle room if you focus on filling out the areas of need ahead of the areas of luxury.

If the plan is to pay Colborne in the range of 2.2M or so, you have to get rid of Bouma to avoid overspending on the bottom of your roster.

You just can't keep banking on a rising cap, that's for sure.

I agree with much of this, but I'm not sure that:

a. Treliving can't get Johnny for less than 7.5;
b. The top 6 winger will cost that much - anyone at that salary isn't going to be the right age for this team IMO. I'm not in favour of a UFA winger. And there's still some pretty good prospect of developing Shinkaruk, maybe Poirier and whoever they draft this year into that role.
c. I also don't think there's a big need for a number 4. There are a lot of prospects plus Nakladal and Jokipakka who can work a number 4 effectively.
d. Keep in mind that a lot of cap unfriendly contracts are gone after enxt year, and I don't think next year is "the" year for Calgary to make its big push.

I do agree that you'd rather not overpay the bottom of the roster, and that Bouma's contract was not prudent. But the way of the NHL is that vets get paid and quite often many of the medium-high salaried forwards are at the bottom of the roster. That's what happens with UFAs.

[Johnny Rotten]

If you're interested, here are Pinder, Warrener, and Boomer thoughts on re-signing Joe Colborne.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960


Sorry, not a direct link.

[Dion]

nm

[GullFoss]

Colborne, wideman and a second round pick for harmonic

But it has to happen now for it to make sense

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

If you're interested, here are Pinder, Warrener, and Boomer thoughts on re-signing Joe Colborne.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960


Sorry, not a direct link.

And they said what?



Regarding Colborne - people complain about our team being too small but want to get rid of the 6'5 guy. And he was never the worst forward in the NHL or whatever ridiculous hyperbole people want to throw out here. He's still an RFA - he's not going to get boatloads of cash. And the Flames would be dopey to let him go.

[1qqaaz]

There are 6 Flames forwards with 32+ points:
Gaudreau: 75
Monahan: 62
Backlund: 42
Colborne: 39
Bennett: 35
Frolik: 32

All other forwards (Ferland, Stajan, Jooris, Bouma, Bollig, and the call-ups) have fewer than 16 points.

Successful teams have scoring depth. Rather than signing a 40+ point guy for 3.5 mill+ a year, I'd rather just keep 6'5 Colborne. I don't even think it's fair to compare Colborne with Ferland, Stajan, etc. since he's in an entirely different league offensively. His point per game is the 3rd highest among Flames forwards: above Backlund, Bennett and Frolik. And this is with a lot of time on the 3rd and 4th lines, playing with Bouma, etc.

I think the Flames should re-sign Colborne this summer, rather than a UFA forward. Here's why:

The Flames have to acquire a goalie this summer. That'll likely add a fair amount to the team cap. After the extensions, I'm not sure we have the cap space to add Backes, Lucic, Okposo when all is said and done. There are a lot of quality forwards in the UFA market this year. Many teams will probably add big contracts to their rosters. It might be smarter to wait on that top 6 forward until next year, when many teams have already used much of their cap space. As you all know, the Flames have a lot of bad contracts expiring after the 16-17 season.

If I'm not mistaken, Jamie Benn is a UFA in 2017. If the Flames avoid signing a top 6 forward this year, they might be in a position to go hard on Benn the next year. Imagine Benn with Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, and a Finn. Steen, Oshie, Burns, Shattenkirk, Hedman, Sharp, Neal, Marchand, Hanzal, are also possible UFAs.

I hope that when the Flames approach the free agency this summer, they truly have strong long-term goals in mind. I doubt the Flames are going to be contenders next year, so I'm not sure it's wise to go hard in free agency.

[FlamesAddiction]

I am often one those people saying that offensive production isn't the bottom line for judging a player, but it does account for something and is a very important quality.

The Flames need a big body that isn't afraid to stand in front of the net, and right now Colborne is that guy and has been rewarded for it this season. He frustrates somewhat because there are some things you just want to see him do more and he doesn't, but that shouldn't take away from the things that he does do well.

Unless we can get a clear upgrade for this roll, then I would love to see him back for the right price. Some type of short bridge contract would be in order I think.

[smiggy77]

I'm in the boat of moving him. He does have some upside but just given his play, I don't see him amounting to more than a 40 point getter, maybe 50 at best for a season or two, kinda like Stajan or Raymond.

I'd say a 1.8m x 2 year or move him.