[PGT] Flames 4. Habs 1. Backstrom solid in Flames debut

[habernac]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I think the most important lesson from his performance tonight is just HOW BAD our goaltending is, when we see a 38 year old guy who hasnt played in over a year, and are already trying to figure out how to keep him for next year.

He shouldnt be standing out like this

Don't get too excited. This is an awful Habs team with at least 8 regulars on the injury list, including 3 of their 4 best players. Hiller probably looks sharp against the Canadiens right now.

[red sky]

Okay, I am indifferent to the win but Matt Stajan does not belong in the NHL anymore. He looks slow, with hands of steel, and takes unnecessary penalties. I loved how Hartley tried to get his 4th line guys on for the power play and Stajan takes a hooking penalty because he fumbles the puck and then is too slow to catch up to the defender. I get he is a good locker room presence but he should be bought out this summer and replaced with a younger, cheaper, and BETTER player in the Flames' system.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Why would he get more?

It just seems to me that if you're going to offer a one-year deal at league minimum, why bother adding in the part where he gets (for example) 150K if he's in the AHL? Not sure if he'd accept, but I feel it's sort of a poison pill with the offer. Why bother making it in the first place?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by red sky

Okay, I am indifferent to the win but Matt Stajan does not belong in the NHL anymore. He looks slow, with hands of steel, and takes unnecessary penalties. I loved how Hartley tried to get his 4th line guys on for the power play and Stajan takes a hooking penalty because he fumbles the puck and then is too slow to catch up to the defender. I get he is a good locker room presence but he should be bought out this summer and replaced with a younger, cheaper, and BETTER player in the Flames' system.

Stajan might be a good guy to keep around for the expansion draft if that rule about needing to expose 25% of the previous year's salary is true.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I could see the Flames or another team inviting Backstrom to camp. If he's willing to be a Joey MacDonald type of guy, then I'd be all for having him aboard.

I think having him as insurance is a prudent move. If the Flames sign Reimer for sake of argument and are planning on having him and Ortio as the tandem, allowing Backstrom to compete as well would help in case Ortio struggles again to start the year.

Ya because we saw how well 3 goalie tandems worked this season...

You simply can't go into the season with these kinds of question marks in goal. This is the most important position and we need to either have a solid option or the management needs to be confident in the 2 goalies they've brought in.

3 goalies fighting for 2 jobs is unnecessary pressure to add at the start of the season when everyone is still trying to find their form.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

not sure that's "average" considering how terrible some of the chances and bounces we give up. Look at the Avs game the other night, wide open net on the first goal, and a bounce right off of Gio's leg on the second. Those kind of goals are percentage killers no matter who's in net and I'm sure if someone went over all the goals we`ve given up this year, yes you would find some goals you`d like the goalie to have back but I`m not sure you`d find enough that you could project a .918 save percentage for a so-called average starter. The fact that this team is second in blocked shots is a big red flag because it`s blocks that often lead to ugly bounces, and further serve to prevent goalies from padding their save percentage with easy saves.

I'm convinced you haven't watched very many games. Maybe you just have a short memory because the first half of the season we let in 3 soft goals a game.

Oh and an average starter has a little something called rebound control and shot suppression. Teams don't get hemmed into the zone for long periods of time if the goalie is able to hold on for a whistle or deflect a rebound to his teammate. Ortio is probably the best of the 3 in this regard, but still he's got a terrible glove hand.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Ya because we saw how well 3 goalie tandems worked this season...

You simply can't go into the season with these kinds of question marks in goal. This is the most important position and we need to either have a solid option or the management needs to be confident in the 2 goalies they've brought in.

3 goalies fighting for 2 jobs is unnecessary pressure to add at the start of the season when everyone is still trying to find their form.

Also to add on to this, I'd rather resign Poulin to a contract and let him tandem with Gillies in the AHL.

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't get it.

Reimer would likely command ~4 million.
Ortio, maybe 2 million?
Backstrom is a UFA, remember - he won't get more than the league minimum.

That's 6-7 million. I mean, that isn't much at all.

Also, how do you know that he won't go down to the AHL? Are you his agent? How can you be so certain?

I think the guy just wants to play, and if being a 3rd-stringer is his best chance, I bet he'll take it. I don't know him, but I bet he's grateful to the Flames' organization for giving him another chance to play. Why wouldn't he come back? Unless he gets a better offer in Finland, I can definitely see both sides having interest.

I don't know him but the guy is 38, Do you think he would want to spend his final 1 or 2 seasons down in the AHL backing up or popcorn munching in the pressbox? He would either want to find a NHL gig or go home to Finland, IMO that's why I'm certain he won't sign anything short of an NHL deal.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Monahan is just 5 points away from leading the 2013 NHL Draft Class.

And after the 3 points last night, is now only 2 points behind. Is also now 20 goals ahead of MacKinnon.

Interesting that Dougie is leading his 2011 draft class for defencemen by a mile with 120 points. Next closest is Adam Larsson with 68.

Easy to forget that Hamilton is only 22. That trade looked good at the time, but imo is just looking better and better.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I think the most important lesson from his performance tonight is just HOW BAD our goaltending is, when we see a 38 year old guy who hasnt played in over a year, and are already trying to figure out how to keep him for next year.

He shouldnt be standing out like this

Flames have been playing better defensively of late which may have as much to do with no more Russell and Wideman as it does goaltending. IMO the new guys on the blue line have made the odd mistake but overall play a simpler game and less fire drills in the Flames end compared to when Russell was playing goaltender outside of the crease. Ortio has ben good but it's not like he's been anything better than league average at best. The Flames aren't playing as sloppy in their own end and giving up so many great scoring chances. Backstrom really wasn't even tested much last night and while that Habs team stinks it's not like the Flames weren't full of a lot of players from the AHL as well as starting a goaltender that hasn't played in a year. Flames simply outplayed the Habs in all facets of the game.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Ya because we saw how well 3 goalie tandems worked this season...

You simply can't go into the season with these kinds of question marks in goal. This is the most important position and we need to either have a solid option or the management needs to be confident in the 2 goalies they've brought in.

3 goalies fighting for 2 jobs is unnecessary pressure to add at the start of the season when everyone is still trying to find their form.

personally I dont blame the 3 goalie situation, I blame the fact that not one of the three could stop a beach ball. If one of the goalies had played well then it wouldnt have been a 3 man rotation for long. And if they cant handle the pressure of having 3 guys then how are they going to handle any on ice pressure???

[Funkhouser]

Talk of re-signing Backstrom is CRAZY.

Dude has played one game and hardly got tested...did Montreal even have a decent scoring chance?? There is a reason he hasn't played in the 14 months prior.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Burner

personally I dont blame the 3 goalie situation, I blame the fact that not one of the three could stop a beach ball. If one of the goalies had played well then it wouldnt have been a 3 man rotation for long. And if they cant handle the pressure of having 3 guys then how are they going to handle any on ice pressure???

What do you mean? It IS on ice pressure. How would you feel if you were given 2-3 games to prove yourself and if you gave up a bad goal then you'd get demoted to the AHL and possibly never see NHL ice again. Why don't you ask Ramo? It's reasonable to assume the goalie would be over playing the puck, holding his stick very tightly and being under unnecessary pressure. Maybe they couldn't stop a beach-ball because they were not prepared for games having to split practice duties on 2 nets between 3 goalies. All while your defensemen are still trying to burn away their vacation weight and get back into game shape. Or playing top minutes in a new system like Hamilton was.

Treliving himself has said having 3 goalies was a costly mistake. How is this even up for debate?

[polak]

Yeah people are getting a little excited. Hiller would have won that game too. Ortio would've probably scored.

[calgaryblood]

The Backstrom love is confusing. There is zero chance the Flames re-sign a 38 year old goalie who has one win under his belt since he was 36.

The Canadiens hardly tested him. Good story and all that but this is the end for him.

[GioforPM]

I liken this game to the Hiller shutout this season. Except that everyone already hated Hiller and therefore he got zero credit for the shutout.

Even on the sole 2 on 1 that he faced. Backstrom just had to absorb a shot to the midsection.

[IliketoPuck]

Subtracting Russel and Wideman and Engelland from the flames roster and inserting Kevin, Nakladal, and Wotherspoon makes our bottom 3 far tougher to play against.

It gives us the size and speed needed to break up other teams cycles in our zone, which Russel Wideman and Engelland really struggle with.

Flames defense is far superior now than it was earlier in the season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by red sky

Okay, I am indifferent to the win but Matt Stajan does not belong in the NHL anymore. He looks slow, with hands of steel, and takes unnecessary penalties. I loved how Hartley tried to get his 4th line guys on for the power play and Stajan takes a hooking penalty because he fumbles the puck and then is too slow to catch up to the defender. I get he is a good locker room presence but he should be bought out this summer and replaced with a younger, cheaper, and BETTER player in the Flames' system.

I don't deny he's losing his value on the roster (though I maintain it's more about who he plays with and the situations into which he's thrown more often than not).

But with only a couple years left (and at lower salaries), he may be of use to either an expansion team needing to get to the floor (at less actual salary than the cap hit) or someone with less centre depth and therefore garner at least a little return at that draft. Retaining and getting a late draft pick is better than buying out and letting someone sign him for peanuts because he's partly being paid with buyout money.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I'm convinced you haven't watched very many games. Maybe you just have a short memory because the first half of the season we let in 3 soft goals a game.

That is total hyperbole. Even in games where the Flames gave up way too many goals against, like Vancouver@CGY, Washington@CGY, Edmonton@CGY, CGY@Ottawa, CGY@NRI at most there was a single soft goal and multiple terrible plays leading to goals in tight. In fact the one game where a soft goal legitimately cost the Flames, was the game at Winnipeg where Ramo posted a .931 save percentage. You seem to be the one with short memory as there were stretches where Hamilton for example looked like the worst defenseman in the NHL and games where Giordano was taking the most untimely penalties possible while Ramo was playing well. Even more recently games like Ottawa@CGY and CGY@SJS where the Flames got lit up, it's very obvious watching the goals against that coverage, not goaltending were issues.

That doesn't absolve goalies of some of their fails, they've all had some serious fails without a doubt. St. Louis @ Calgary(Hiller), Montreal @ Calgary (Ortio), Calgary @ Colorado (Ramo). But even average goalies have their fails, even great goalies have fail nights. Hiller has had enough fail nights that he's an easy target to blame, but the other two have had nights where they played well and still let up 4 goals against.

To post a .918 with the AAA chances our team has given up over the past year would be a goalie standing on his head and playing at a top ten level despite only being a top twenty save percentage.

Originally Posted by AcGold

Good goalies stop those shots they shouldn't make, that's the difference. A good goalie bails his team out when they make mistakes.

Good goalies =/= average goalies. Caged Great said an average goalie would post a .918 because it's an average save percentage. That's untrue. Many goalies posting a .918 are protected behind strong team defense. A .918 on this team would be an almost Lundqvist-esque performance.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Subtracting Russel and Wideman and Engelland from the flames roster and inserting Kevin, Nakladal, and Wotherspoon makes our bottom 3 far tougher to play against.

It gives us the size and speed needed to break up other teams cycles in our zone, which Russel Wideman and Engelland really struggle with.

Flames defense is far superior now than it was earlier in the season.

that and you don't have a boat anchor attached to Gio, Brodie or Dougie nearly as much. the question is, does Hartley realize this or is he still going to make the same personnel mistakes next year? I'm not expecting the perfect coach, I just want one that's willing to adapt, something we haven't seen much of these past 4 years.

[CalgaryFan1988]

If Treliving is actually considering Ortio vs Backstrom for the backup position, why wouldn't he just decide this season, bringing both back is a wasted spot.