[PGT] Free Fallin' for Forty Days: PHI 5 - CGY 3

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not advocating Hartley be fired

Why not? We don't need to waste another full year of our young core's prime with a poor coach. The change should be made this off-season.

[Toonage]

Darryl Sutter's contract is up at the end of the season. Just saying.

I'll show myself out.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not to pick on your post, as I think your comments are very rational. Some questions though:

Is it true that rebuild typically take 5 years in the NHL's cap era? Are there examples of that? What does a team look like at the end of the rebuild? Contending for a championship , perennial playoff performer etc.?

Although no one should expect total linear progression during a rebuild, it is troubling the Flames brought back the same team from last year and added three significant pieces (Hamilton, Frolik, Bennett) and proceeded to have a much worse record.

An optimist will point to the good young players on the team. A pessimist will point will point to the lack of top caliber prospects knocking on the door to help the team take the next step.

I guess it also depends just how much you attribute this years record to poor goaltending.

There's no set rebuild schedule, but it takes a while.

Blackhawks missed the playoffs five years in a row before their first decent playoff run (and one season was cancelled during that stretch).

LA missed the playoffs six years in a row before they first made it during this run and went out in the first round two years straight before they made their first run.

Not sure who else you want to look at, but those are the most successful teams of late.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Darryl Sutter's contract is up at the end of the season. Just saying.

I'll show myself out.

Who knows, after being down 3-0 to the Sharks Lombardi was 1 game away from firing him.

Secondbestcock will also be available after the annual Blues 1st round exit.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

There's no set rebuild schedule, but it takes a while.

Blackhawks missed the playoffs five years in a row before their first decent playoff run (and one season was cancelled during that stretch).

LA missed the playoffs six years in a row before they first made it during this run and went out in the first round two years straight before they made their first run.

Not sure who else you want to look at, but those are the most successful teams of late.

Pittsburg took about six years.

Islanders longer.

Blues were five years if I'm not mistaken.

Capitals were four years.

There are examples of teams who have experienced quick turnarounds but they're outnumbered by rebuilding teams who have taken on average 5 years.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Yoho

All of your comments are fair Cali, but to attach an Oilers analogy to a team one year after winning a playoff round is going to get called out.

Well if that was the reason for all the stupid and nasty comments, then people need to stop being so sensitive.

I'm seriously concerned that this team is starting to accept losing. These long losing streaks are indicative of that. If you're not good enough, you're going to lose more often than you win, but if you're competing really hard you will win once every 3-4 games, no matter what. This whole team has lost the plot this year, and even though there's good talent on this team, they don't play cohesively at all. If that's because of coaching, then Hartley needs to go. If that's because of a ton of different little mental factors like poor starts, poor goaltending etc., then we hit the reset button and get ready for next year. However, they had better come out like gangbusters to begin the season next year.

I don't even expect them to be a playoff team, but they better look a helluva lot better in a lot of different areas next year and have real statistical improvements as well. They have to be top half of the league in goals against. You'll never win if you don't play adequate defense. If that's because of goaltending, systems, or personnel, then address whatever it is, or all 3, in the off-season.

And if you're saying "be patient", I hear you, and I am. However, Monahan and Gaudreau will already be starting next season on their 2nd contracts. It will be year 4 of the rebuild. The team has to start getting close at some point in the near future.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I just hate the losing. I get that there are silver linings with potential draft picks, but really, I just hate watching them get owned in the second period by a mediocre team.

Not sure how hating to lose is a bad thing, and I certainly hope the players and coaches and management feel the same way.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Well if that was the reason for all the stupid and nasty comments, then people need to stop being so sensitive.

I'm seriously concerned that this team is starting to accept losing. These long losing streaks are indicative of that. If you're not good enough, you're going to lose more often than you win, but if you're competing really hard you will win once every 3-4 games, no matter what. This whole team has lost the plot this year, and even though there's good talent on this team, they don't play cohesively at all. If that's because of coaching, then Hartley needs to go. If that's because of a ton of different little mental factors like poor starts, poor goaltending etc., then we hit the reset button and get ready for next year. However, they had better come out like gangbusters to begin the season next year.

I don't even expect them to be a playoff team, but they better look a helluva lot better in a lot of different areas next year and have real statistical improvements as well. They have to be top half of the league in goals against. You'll never win if you don't play adequate defense. If that's because of goaltending, systems, or personnel, then address whatever it is, or all 3, in the off-season.

And if you're saying "be patient", I hear you, and I am. However, Monahan and Gaudreau will already be starting next season on their 2nd contracts. It will be year 4 of the rebuild. The team has to start getting close at some point in the near future.

Don't think that will happen with Gio at the helm.

[Strange Brew]

I say lay off of Cali Panthers Fan. It's just fine to be pissed off at losing. The Flames have been bad for a while now aside from last year's surprise. Using an Oilers analogy is no big deal and if that gets people mad, then that tells me there is real concern about the state of our franchise.

Now that the deadline is over, there's not a lot to be excited about. Yeah watching some of the younger players will be nice but success after the deadline for a team out of contention is basically fool's gold.

Let's face it. This is an important off season. I doubt we'll be able to add the same number of quality players we did last time so let's hope whatever we do has a bigger impact.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by heep223

Don't think that will happen with Gio at the helm.

And just because a team is losing doesn't mean they accept it. At this time of year, teams are clawing for points. Coaches are starting to get them into playoff mode. Could they be playing harder? Sure they could, I'll be the first to admit that. But a guy like Gaudreau has won at every level. It's foolish to think think he's accepting losing. Gio is the captain for a reason , and I doubt he's folded up like a cheap tent.

Realistically, a coaching change probably happens in the summer if a better candidate pops up, and we hopefully get that solid goaltending we so desperately need. The team will get their swagger back when they get someone they can trust in net. A good goalie masks a lot of mistakes. Mistakes that seem to pour into our net every chance. The Flames' haven't had poor goaltending like this is decades. Not even the 90's young guns era had it this bad. We were spoiled for so long by Kipper that we've forgotten how bad it can be when you don't have a legit #1 G. Teams like the Flyers, Oilers and Leafs know all to well how poor goaltending can drag down a franchise for long periods of time.

A good goaltender will fix a lot of the issues and bring stability to the team. Obviously there is much more work to do, but hopefully BT sees this as the franchises #1 need.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by saillias

Who knows, after being down 3-0 to the Sharks Lombardi was 1 game away from firing him.

Secondbestcock will also be available after the annual Blues 1st round exit.

Ummmmm...I didn't know there were Power Rankings for these?

[fire_starter]

© berto_14
List of active players who've scored 20+ goals in their first three seasons:
Sean Monahan
Sidney Crosby
Jamie Benn
Jaromir Jagr
Patrick Kane
Anze Kopitar
Evgeni Malkin
James Neal
Alex Ovechkin
Michael Ryder
Steven Stamkos
John Tavares
Jonathan Toews
Thomas Vanek

[codynw]

One of those players sure sticks out on that list.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by codynw

One of those players sure sticks out on that list.

Michael Ryder?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Michael Ryder?

Yea, everyone else on that list is still an effective player. I didn't even know Ryder was still in the NHL.

[sureLoss]

I don't think Ryder is even playing pro hockey anywhere this year. Therefore not an active player.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by codynw

Yea, everyone else on that list is still an effective player. I didn't even know Ryder was still in the NHL.

I don't think he is playing this year. On another note, how bad are the devils wow.

http://devils.nhl.com/club/stats.htm

[fire_starter]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I don't think Ryder is even playing pro hockey anywhere this year. Therefore not an active player.

according to Wikipedia he still plays for the NJ Devils

[BigFlameDog]

You put a decent goaltender behind this team and you have a much better product. I don't think you can overstate the importance of confidence in your goalie. It is true from Novice to the NHL.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Ummmmm...I didn't know there were Power Rankings for these?

Only the winners are notified