[PGT] Ducks beat Flames 6-4

[Sakic19]

That hurt my heart. On the plus side, due to my school schedule I may get to go to my first and only Flames game of the year Wednesday for 10-20$. Yay...

[Samonadreau]

If you say Treliving did nothing to add to the team, he made a blockbuster trade for a top 4 (future top 2) defender and a 2nd line rw. Who said this was going to happen overnight? If there are coaching personnel changes or goaltender moves then i have no problem waiting till the offseason to make those.

Pretty much all he has done wrong is start with 3 goalies. And man that did not go well but im pretty sure the lesson was learned. It will make him a better GM.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

If you say Treliving did nothing to add to the team, he made a blockbuster trade for a top 4 (future top 2) defender and a 2nd line rw. Who said this was going to happen overnight? If there are coaching personnel changes or goaltender moves then i have no problem waiting till the offseason to make those.

Pretty much all he has done wrong is start with 3 goalies. And man that did not go well but im pretty sure the lesson was learned. It will make him a better GM.

Id argue signing Raymond.

[dying4acup]

For the record, it was reported that at reliving tried to acquire every goalie on the market during the summer. He couldn't get it done, likely because of the assets spent on the Hamilton trade, but it's not like he was comfortable with Hiller/Ramo/Ortio going into the season.

I would take a shot on cam ward this summer. 3/4 year deal around 5-6M. He might get better offers, but I would make an attempt. I might have felt differently if Gillies had a full year in the AHL.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

I would take a shot on cam ward this summer. 3/4 year deal around 5-6M. He might get better offers, but I would make an attempt. I might have felt differently if Gillies had a full year in the AHL.

Hahahahaha, no.

That is a huge overpayment for a goalie that isn't good anymore.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

I'm pissed at Treliving for doing absolutely nothing to aid the team this season. We have plenty of future coming. I'd like a little "now" given due diligence. And no action was taken to fuel a team that has the personnel to be 10-20 points ahead of where they are now, but clearly underachieved particularly out of the gate. Instead they sat on three goaltenders too long, which killed the first month and a half of their season and allowed a bottom of the league powerplay and penalty kill to go unaddressed, despite months of inadequacy.

Has Burke been working on his tan since october? He could've stepped in at any time.

So you are saying Hamilton and Frolik just magically appeared on the 2015/16 roster? You can argue few GM's did more to help their team in the offseason.

[Locke]

That was like a Junior game, all intensity and effort and no finesse or focus.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

He's reportedly looking to get 7 mill / season. At that price you don't even think about re-signing him.

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yep, just like Giordano reportedly asking $9mil/yr this is totally what we'd have to pay to re-sign Hudler.

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

That's not what I'm saying, at all. I just don't see Hudler as a long term piece and he wants both term and money.

He has been a ghost up until the past ten games. He was incredible last season no doubt, but based on this season he's not close to worth the number he's reportedly looking for.

If you can get anything of value for him at the deadline, I think you make that move every day and twice on Sundays.

All I had to go by with your first post was what you posted, and you specifically spoke to the rumors of $7mil and that we shouldn't even think of signing him at that price. Then you responded with "That's not what I was saying at all".

Your second post totally makes sense, and I actually agree with it, but kind of odd to act like I was making things up about your first post.

[ScorchyScorch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So you are saying Hamilton and Frolik just magically appeared on the 2015/16 roster? You can argue few GM's did more to help their team in the offseason.

No. They did well in the offseason, which bumped the expectations and makes this even more frustrating. I mean during the course of 2015/2016. When the underwhelming results started to present themselves, from coaching to goaltending, while the expectation was playoffs and Treliving and co while probably working the phones every odd day chose not to act in the interest of this season or the big holes that presented themselves early. I get the preaching of future. But some of these issues aren't going to magically sort themselves out through patience, not a chance. And the results were shockingly below where they should've been. Some kind of shakeup needed to be made. Instead the team was left out to dry with a coaching staff that's been pushing a largely ineffective game plan without adjusting it accordingly (we just played track meet hockey with the Ducks has that worked ever Bob?) and a goaltending tandem that doesn't inspire confidence and won't steal any games (perhaps once this season). The result is your young top players tuning out enough to take liberties with the established rules. Perhaps it was just an isolated incident of young players still learning that would've happened anywhere and unfortunately got publicized, but perhaps it's indicative of how the everyone in the current situation feels too safe and not confident enough about the team's direction as it pertains to this season because it appears nothing will be done and management is just content to sit this season out. 8 weeks of basically meaningless hockey sucks man. Coming off a season of playoffs. It ####ing sucks.

Is it wrong that I'm irked? Could've something have been done to patch some holes in this wreck? Maybe, maybe not. But nothing was attempted. And for that reason I'm bitter. I wanted a better season from a team that was supposed to improve.

[fire_starter]

Originally Posted by New Era

Would we do any worse with this in net for the rest of the season?

Something seems off. The top two corners of the net need to be double that size

[DuffMan]

Did somebody say "special teams"?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

I'm pissed at Treliving for doing absolutely nothing to aid the team this season. We have plenty of future coming. I'd like a little "now" given due diligence. And no action was taken to fuel a team that has the personnel to be 10-20 points ahead of where they are now, but clearly underachieved particularly out of the gate. Instead they sat on three goaltenders too long, which killed the first month and a half of their season and allowed a bottom of the league powerplay and penalty kill to go unaddressed, despite months of inadequacy.

Has Burke been working on his tan since october? He could've stepped in at any time.

I think you are severely overestimating the quality of this hockey team. The Flames have one true 1st line forward, three top 4 defensemen, three other forwards that are roughly 2nd line in quality.... and that's it. There are some other useful pieces like Backlund, but nothing that every other team doesn't have. Last year was an aberration, this is not a playoff-caliber team IMO.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I think you are severely overestimating the quality of this hockey team. The Flames have one true 1st line forward, three top 4 defensemen, three other forwards that are roughly 2nd line in quality.... and that's it. There are some other useful pieces like Backlund, but nothing that every other team doesn't have. Last year was an aberration, this is not a playoff-caliber team IMO.

He's not far off. With an average save percentage this season the flames would have 26 less goals against, or about 6-10 more points at least

[saillias]

That's a helluva 2nd line by your standards. Bennett-Monahan-Hudler. Who is going to play with Johnny on line 1? Gretz and Lindros?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I think you are severely overestimating the quality of this hockey team. The Flames have one true 1st line forward, three top 4 defensemen, three other forwards that are roughly 2nd line in quality.... and that's it. There are some other useful pieces like Backlund, but nothing that every other team doesn't have. Last year was an aberration, this is not a playoff-caliber team IMO.

This has ZERO account for player projections when we clearly have a young team with highly projected talent. To suggest Bennett and Monahan aren't going to be top 6 forwards in the next couple of years is asinine.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by jayswin

This has ZERO account for player projections when we clearly have a young team with highly projected talent. To suggest Bennett and Monahan aren't going to be top 6 forwards in the next couple of years is asinine.

I have Monahan and Bennett as two top 6 guys, but I didn't name them specifically. The forwards I was referring to are Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler and Bennett. My point is that's not enough, we need more.

[ScorchyScorch]

Gaudreau - 1st line forward
Monahan - 1st/2nd line tweener C
Bennett - 2nd line forward with 1st line projection
Hudler, Frolik - 2nd line forwards

That's still 5 top 6 forwards.

Gio, Brodie - 1st pairing d-men
Hamilton - 2nd pairing d-man with 1st pairing upside

The problem is we don't have any real stay at home d-men that excel at purely a physical/shutdown role, Bennett and Monahan haven't taken their 'next step' yet, and the supporting cast doesn't possess enough grit or size. And the goaltending is sub-par.

A RW that could be competitive on the top line would go a long way. With Hudler departing, finding that piece will be a must.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I think you are severely overestimating the quality of this hockey team. The Flames have one true 1st line forward, three top 4 defensemen, three other forwards that are roughly 2nd line in quality.... and that's it. There are some other useful pieces like Backlund, but nothing that every other team doesn't have. Last year was an aberration, this is not a playoff-caliber team IMO.

That's understating things somewhat IMO.

Gaudeau is a 1st line forward now. I think Monahan is a lower tier 1st line centre or elite 2nd line centre. Bennett I think projects to be a 1st line player sooner rather than later. Frolik is a solid 2nd liner. Brodie and Gio are top two defensemen and I think Hamilton has top two upside as well.

Probably gonna get another 1st line forward or top 2 defenseman this draft. Once goaltending is solved we're only a couple pieces away from being a contender IMO and Treliving will have a lot of assets to play with.

The rebuild could turn the corner quickly depending how fast our 1st rounder this year can make an impact and whether we get some surprises from our other prospects and if Treliving can supplement the core with another great UFA signing like Frolik.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by saillias

That's a helluva 2nd line by your standards. Bennett-Monahan-Hudler. Who is going to play with Johnny on line 1? Gretz and Lindros?

Can't have a perfect team in a cap world. Just because Hudler plays on the top line it doesn't mean he's a true 1st line talent. Monahan is close but still more of a great #2 than a true #1 in my eyes, though he may get there. Bennett has elite potential but he's a 2nd liner at the moment. Forgot about Frolik but he is ideally your fifth or sixth best forward. He's probably our second/third best most nights.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He's not far off. With an average save percentage this season the flames would have 26 less goals against, or about 6-10 more points at least

People act like this an easy problem to solve. He mentioned that things could've been done to avoid this but I'm not sure I agree. Getting a top goalie is a difficult task, I'm not sure if Treliving's critics fully appreciate that.

Besides getting a better goalie, I have to wonder how much of our goalie's woes can be attributed to how well the team is playing in front of them. I have to think even a great goalie would have trouble at times behind this group. Not to excuse Ramo or Hiller but I'm not sure Lehner, Jones or Talbot would have this group much higher in the standings.