[PGT] Flames lose 4-3. Questionable Team Defense

[tvp2003]

Well, nothing left to do but run the table against Tampa, Washington and Chicago to finish the road trip 3-1.

Or lose all those games and go 0-4. One of those two...

[Gaskal]

Smid could've probably at least hit the net.

[Travis Munroe]

I guess it is fairly divided in CP's thoughts on Ramos play.
When Hrudey has been quoted as saying a fanned shot is a extremely hard shot to save, I believe him. Point out 1 goal against Ramo that he should have saved which wasnt fanned (doesnt go where the shooter or goalie are expecting) or a shooter didnt have a perfect look.

Then it is worth pointing out the scrambled play in front of him with many screen saves and the incredible breakaway save. In no way am I saying he was great but goaltending was not the issue tonight.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

As much as I love reading HFOil after a loss, this place can be just as bad sometimes.

Ooooooh boy, looks like the sky is falling again!!

Well, last year after 16 games we were 9-5-2 and had 20 points, playing .556 hockey.

This year we're 5-10-1, have 11 points and are playing .306 hockey. We're on pace for 50 points this season.

What, pray, is holding up the sky these days?

[FiveSeven]

Well my team got a new goalie the year before last and he's much much better.
Our team barely made playoffs, it was down to the last game.
Then last year we lost our best center and but we finished the regular season 2nd overall.

Having a good goalie completely changed the entire complex of our team.
Not only did the goals against go down, the goals for went way up, for obvious reasons.

[Jetfire]

Hi, I'm brand new to the forum, always a Flames fan primarily, but quite like the Jets too, anyhow, this team hurts to watch, yet I love them too much not to. Yeah last year was flukey to a certain degree sure, but how a team can change so drastically from that hard-working battle every night attitude in a matter of 4 months, it appears three quarters of the team have regressed/are having a down year, and I honestly don't see what Treliving or Hartley can really do to fix the problem besides benching some guys and continuing to scramble lines, virtually nobody is at full value currently, so trading doesn't necessarily seem like the best idea. I'm not even concerned about playoffs at this point, but what do you guys think needs to happen with this team to get them back to something even as simple as enjoying themselves again? Is it just a matter of adjusting to a new system or something more?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Anyone else find it real coincidental that all 3 goalies played good last year, all 3 goalies are playing bad this year?

1 goal was weak on Ramo, but he is not the problem. For "top 2 defence in the league on paper" this team sucks defensively on the ice. It's not all goaltending.

Very well put.

I dont know how Wideman keeps getting ice time. Lets bring up a body from Stockton to try and get a spark. Wideman does not know how to play defense. Also hit the net buddy, c'mon.

Its like they left everything they worked on and gained defensively at home.

Edit: Even Brodie who has been money so far was having a really tough night. That kind of hurt too but Brodie has too much on his shoulders right now. Too bad Gio hasnt been the same old Gio .

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Anyone else find it real coincidental that all 3 goalies played good last year, all 3 goalies are playing bad this year?
.

Hmmm I dunno. I would rephrase and say all 3 goalies played mediocre last year and are playing worse this year.
The Flames had their success last year in spite of goaltending not because of it. It is worse this year, but it really wasn't great last year either.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Anyone else find it real coincidental that all 3 goalies played good last year, all 3 goalies are playing bad this year?



1 goal was weak on Ramo, but he is not the problem. For "top 2 defence in the league on paper" this team sucks defensively on the ice. It's not all goaltending.

Which goal was bad? The little wrister from outside that he bobbled with his glove, or the GWG where Jagr fanned on it and it slid past him at about 2MPH on the ice?

[Nobama]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

can someone explain to me why Ramo would try and save that Jagr shot with his trapper instead of his leg?

You know, that long thing with the giant pad on it?

Because he was way out of position. Deep in his net and cheating short side. Just terrible goaltending so far this year.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Jetfire

Hi, I'm brand new to the forum, always a Flames fan primarily, but quite like the Jets too, anyhow, this team hurts to watch, yet I love them too much not to. Yeah last year was flukey to a certain degree sure, but how a team can change so drastically from that hard-working battle every night attitude in a matter of 4 months, it appears three quarters of the team have regressed/are having a down year, and I honestly don't see what Treliving or Hartley can really do to fix the problem besides benching some guys and continuing to scramble lines, virtually nobody is at full value currently, so trading doesn't necessarily seem like the best idea. I'm not even concerned about playoffs at this point, but what do you guys think needs to happen with this team to get them back to something even as simple as enjoying themselves again? Is it just a matter of adjusting to a new system or something more?

Welcome to the forum

The biggest fear is that a coach like Hartley can have a very short shelf life. There are many great coaches like this who can come in and motivate motivate motivate but eventually that rawr rawr rawr gets old to the players.

The other issue is the stretch breakout. We have had a hell of a time getting out of our own zone this year and now that teams lock into the stretch pass it seems everyone is lost on the breakout.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Hmmm I dunno. I would rephrase and say all 3 goalies played mediocre last year and are playing worse this year.
The Flames had their success last year in spite of goaltending not because of it. It is worse this year, but it really wasn't great last year either.

Tough to say its ALL goaltending, its an equal share.in the game tonight the goaltending was equal(ly bad) and the defense worse on Our side.

[formulate]

For those pointing to team defense as the issue, this team is allowing 4 less scoring chances per 60 minutes of 5 on 5, and almost 2 less 'high danger' scoring chances, compared to last year.

Of course it would be great to reduce these numbers further, but it's much easier to overlook defensive gaffes when the puck is being stopped.

The Flames' 5v5 save % of 88.1 would be the lowest since Philly's 87.5 in 06-07. Yikes.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by formulate

For those pointing to team defense as the issue, this team is allowing 4 less scoring chances per 60 minutes of 5 on 5, and almost 2 less 'high danger' scoring chances, compared to last year.

Of course it would be great to reduce these numbers further, but it's much easier to overlook defensive gaffes when the puck is being stopped.

The Flames' 5v5 save % of 88.1 would be the lowest since Philly's 87.5 in 06-07. Yikes.

Good goaltending can make the defense look better and good defense can make the goalie look better. Stats dont lie but I know what i see and its poor defense and poor goaltending.. that together makes it look really bad.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I guess it is fairly divided in CP's thoughts on Ramos play.
When Hrudey has been quoted as saying a fanned shot is a extremely hard shot to save, I believe him. Point out 1 goal against Ramo that he should have saved which wasnt fanned (doesnt go where the shooter or goalie are expecting) or a shooter didnt have a perfect look.

Then it is worth pointing out the scrambled play in front of him with many screen saves and the incredible breakaway save. In no way am I saying he was great but goaltending was not the issue tonight.

Travis i usually agree with you but i can't tonight. A couple lucky posts kept the game from being 6-3. At a certain point his GAA starts to talk for itself. And more importantly, its the backbreaker goal that is costly. Hell, Luongo let in 3 himself, but it was the softie from Jagr that cost us, and thats the difference. He has to have that if we're gonna be a playoff team. Even more so now that were in a hole.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Good goaltending can make the defense look better and good defense can make the goalie look better. Stats dont lie but I know what i see and its poor defense and poor goaltending.. that together makes it look really bad.

I would actually agree, and was quite surprised myself to see the numbers. But again, it's much easier to overlook a defensive breakdown when the puck is saved and going back up the ice in the other direction. With all these goals against, you see the replay multiple times and are able to pinpoint what went wrong and who was responsible.

Another point would be the potential of more scoring chances being limited by the fact that there are less rebounds and more pucks going in the first damn time.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Hmmm I dunno. I would rephrase and say all 3 goalies played mediocre last year and are playing worse this year.
The Flames had their success last year in spite of goaltending not because of it. It is worse this year, but it really wasn't great last year either.

The Flames received some pretty strong goaltending in stretches, particularly at the start of the year.

This year, the goalies have cost them a few games and have yet to "win" them a game.

It is scary to see how poorly our three highest paid defenseman are playing (considering Gio's next year salary). For this team to be successful that absolutely can't continue. This year, next year or any year.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by formulate

I would actually agree, and was quite surprised myself to see the numbers. But again, it's much easier to overlook a defensive breakdown when the puck is saved and going back up the ice in the other direction. With all these goals against, you see the replay multiple times and are able to pinpoint what went wrong and who was responsible.

Another point would be the potential of more scoring chances being limited by the fact that there are less rebounds and more pucks going in the first damn time.

Ya good points. Somethings gotta give and i guess thats why BT and coach Hartley make the big bucks.

[saillias]

I skipped this one to play Fallout 4 no regrets

[old-fart]

Ramo and the team defence are hot garbage. Might as well start Ortio although he has been garbage too.