We have too many players now, who are we trading this summer?

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Skaloper

Bouma should be included in the list of locks to make the roster. He is by far our best penalty killer, chips in offensively and is able to bring physical play on a smaller team. There is no way that anyone will pass him in the depth charts and take his spot unless he is traded which I doubt will happen.

He doesn't have a contract. If/when he signs with the Flames, I will consider him a lock, but not until then.

[FlameZilla]

Regarding Stajan: from next season (16/17) his cap hit is a higher value than his actual salary. This could benefit some cash-strapped teams (*cough* Arizona *cough*) who may need to save a bit of money but also make it to the cap floor.

Season Age Salary Cap Hit
2015-16 31 $3,375,000 - $3,125,000
2016-17 32 $3,000,000 - $3,125,000
2017-18 33 $2,000,000 - $3,125,000

There could be some teams looking to blow it up and rebuild between now and next season. Stajan could be a pretty attractive piece for teams like that: veteran C, good with rookies, pretty reasonable salary for what he brings.

Beyond this year I feel the team will have outgrown Stajan. Bennett, Granlund, Shore, Arnold and Jooris aren't that far away from surpassing him. Also, talking of maximising assets, well Matty ain't gettin any younger.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Regarding Stajan: from next season (16/17) his cap hit is a higher value than his actual salary. This could benefit some cash-strapped teams (*cough* Arizona *cough*) who may need to save a bit of money but also make it to the cap floor.

Season Age Salary Cap Hit
2015-16 31 $3,375,000 - $3,125,000
2016-17 32 $3,000,000 - $3,125,000
2017-18 33 $2,000,000 - $3,125,000

There could be some teams looking to blow it up and rebuild between now and next season. Stajan could be a pretty attractive piece for teams like that: veteran C, good with rookies, pretty reasonable salary for what he brings.

Beyond this year I feel the team will have outgrown Stajan. Bennett, Granlund, Shore, Arnold and Jooris aren't that far away from surpassing him. Also, talking of maximising assets, well Matty ain't gettin any younger.

IMO, I've been wondering if Stajan and Granlund would be shipped out together to a team with issues with their centre depth. Gives them a vet as well as a future in a whatever trade. Theoretically, Stajan starts up and slowly plays up and down with a downward trajectory. Granlund does the opposite and starts near bottom and sooner or later overtakes Stajan.

[David Struch]

I like the idea of Calgary moving out Stajan and Granlund, I would guess their value to be at least a 2nd & 3rd pick, Flames appear to have more than enough players capable of playing centre

Monahan
Backlund
Bennett
Colborne
Jooris
Shore
Bouma
Byron
Arnold
Grant
Elson
Jankowski
Mangiapane
Karnaukhov
Deblouw

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Regarding Stajan: from next season (16/17) his cap hit is a higher value than his actual salary. This could benefit some cash-strapped teams (*cough* Arizona *cough*) who may need to save a bit of money but also make it to the cap floor.

Arizona needs to sign Boedker. Which leaves NJ as the other salary floor target.

[Iceman90]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

but since Treliving has magical wizard powers, I'm probably wrong.

That made me laugh out loud. I picture Treliving sitting in his office with a wizard hat and a staff making trade calls.

[Fire]

Trading Granlund could be a huge mistake and is really unnecessary at this point. He doesn't have to pass through waivers yet. If like Sven it doesn't look like it will work out for him here you trade him at the deadline or next summer.

I don't get what's the rush to move him out. The guy is still capable of being a two-way 2nd/3rd liner in this league. IMO he has more upside than a lot of other guys on this team, including Byron, Shore, Jooris and Colborne.

[FBI]

I agree on Byron and shore but I think Colborne has more upside than granlund.

[Poe969]

I don't get why anyone would want to trade Colborne at all. The guy stepped up and was a beast in the playoffs and he hasn't looked out of place on the second or third line. He's young and he's just starting to improve.

The only reason I could see trading him is because of the lack of "U" in his name.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Arizona needs to sign Boedker. Which leaves NJ as the other salary floor target.

Why would NJ give up assets when they can reach the floor by dipping into the ufa market which will cost them nothing but dollars?

If we are going to unload our expensive spare parts it may involve taking a bad contract back. Maybe we can upgrade the player who is on a bad deal and whose team needs to move out.

Lyle Richardson listed the following players who are the most intriguing available on the trade market.

Lecavalier
Berglund
Bickell
Skinner
Bozak
Sharp
Shattenkirk
Grabner

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...e-trade-market

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get why anyone would want to trade Colborne at all.

Because better players may have emerged on the roster and you can't let emotion control decision making. I love that Colborne bleeds a C of red but that can't guide the decision.

The guy stepped up and was a beast in the playoffs

He was a beast for spurts. On a whole he was sort of just there, really benefiting from Backlund and Bennett more than benefiting them. I won't fault him on effort but he didn't show me anything that convinced me "this guy needs to stay". His brutal cross check to the face in game 4 of the Ducks series effectively negated his amazing shift in Game 1 of the Canucks series.

he hasn't looked out of place on the second or third line.

Well, I disagree. He shows flashes but generally he's not much to speak of. I can't argue with his point production or his plus/minus but he has an " Olli Jokinen" feel to his game.

He's young and he's just starting to improve. .

A bit debateable.. He's 25, which for a forward means he's likely approaching the latter portion of his peak. I give him the benefit of doubt with learning from the playoff experience plus recovering from his wrist injury, but if we traded him to make room for others I would understand why. I would still rather clear Bollig and Raymond before him though, by far.

[Vinny01]

Flames want to get bigger so trading a 6'5 forward who was finally starting to throw his weight around is not something they are likely interested in. My guess is Colborne is going nowhere

[Poe969]

There is 0 emotion in why I think the Flames should keep Colborne. As Vinny mentioned, he's a big body which we need. That alone is a good reason to keep him in the fold. As for better players emerging, if that happens then great but it hasn't yet so there's no big rush. If that happens and he isn't a fit on any lines then it only makes sense to trade him. As of now, no player has took a position from him so trading him before it happens is a bad idea.

Point being, you don't trade a player unless a player steps up and replaces him. Trading a player in hopes that a rookie replaces him is "the grass is always greener" mentality and will lead to failure. Colborne like everyone else are just players on the team, if it makes sense to trade any of them because it benefits the team then it should be done.

[Niemo]

I'd much prefer to trade Raymond and Bollig.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

As Vinny mentioned, he's a big body which we need. That alone is a good reason to keep him in the fold.

...that's a very poor reason to keep him in the fold. You need hockey players, not big bodies. The defending cup champs should be proof of that.

As for better players emerging, if that happens then great but it hasn't yet so there's no big rush. If that happens and he isn't a fit on any lines then it only makes sense to trade him. As of now, no player has took a position from him so trading him before it happens is a bad idea.

Debatable. He's been handed a position since he got here and even when other players have outperformed him he's been handed powerplay minutes and 1st/2nd line minutes where he's looked like the worst player on the line every time.

Trading a player in hopes that a rookie replaces him is "the grass is always greener" mentality and will lead to failure.

I didn't say that "I hope a rookie replaces him."

I expect Frolik and Hudler to displace him in the top 6 RW. Most would agree he's below Jones on the depth chart too. The "age-edge" goes to Colborne there but again it goes back to your own argument of a "grass is always greener" mentality where you're not just going to replace Jones with Colborne because he's younger if he's not decisively better. And I would take Jones every time, until it boiled down to age vs contract.

He's probably below Bouma and Ferland on the left wing chart now that Ferland is waiver eligible. He doesn't really play LW anyways though.

He's also never found his footing at centre, where Stajan, Bennett, Backlund, and Monahan are the likely options with a possibility of Jooris, Shore or Granlund depending on what Hartley wants to do with Bennett.

...So really, Colborne is competing with Bollig, Raymond, Shore, Byron, Granlund and Jooris for 4th line winger duties.

You might look at Colborne's 6'5" and think that his height guarantees him a roster spot, and I do think his penalty killing is a valuable asset. But I look at what Byron and Jooris bring to the table as bonafide possession drivers and I think Treliving is more aware of that than all the people shocked that Byron was even qualified as an RFA or that think Jooris was a flash in the pan. Treliving is apparently a lot more interested in becoming a strong possession team than Flames fans seem to be, and I imagine he's also aware that Colborne is such a wierd player in that he's had okay possession when on Monahan or Backlund's line, but as a whole is a brutal possession player and we can't expect that to magically change.

There's also Shore in the mix somewhere, and I agree that right now Colborne appears to be ahead of Shore on Hartley's depth chart. But I don't know if Treliving feels the same way, and he's mentioned multiple times that he doesn't expect Shore to clear waivers.

Granlund can pass to AHL without waivers so we can not really worry about him for now. But that's still six spots for four players and it's going to come down to Treliving to decide who stays. Like I said, Bollig and Raymond are still the clear odd men out and I'm not advocating that we move Colborne. I want to see what a healthy Colborne does and if he can break the 10 goal barrier. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the Flames feel they've seen what they need to of Colborne and would prefer the return in a trade, especially if Raymond's NTC or Bollig's useless ability to fight keep them around.

I think Colborne has more upside than granlund.

Offensive upside? Granlund was a PPG in the AHL as a 20 year old. Colborne's never come close to that in his entire three years there. Granlund had a higher PPG as a 21 year old rookie than Colborne did as a 24 year old rookie. I don't see how you can say Colborne has more upside there... Granlund's upside is a guy like Jiri Hudler while Colborne's upside is a guy like.. Joe Colborne except a bit better.

Defensive upside? Granlund has earned Hartley's trust at centre while Colborne has been relegated to playing wing. So I wonder about that. I don't think Colborne is a bad defensive player but I'm also not sure he's a great one.

Upside as a big hitter? Well, sure. Bollig has more upside than Granlund at that too. So does Pat Sieloff.

[Jason14h]

I don't think the Flames will trade anyone.

Granlund will be sent down, and Raymond, Bollig and Byron will fight for last playing spot and the 2 pressbox seats, probably with Jooris.

Injuries will happen. Flames will want depth for when they do.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

GranteedEV I tend to disagree with most of what you post, but none more so then the topic of Joe Colborne.

Colborne is more then a big body. He's a big body who can play hockey. And he's done nothing but improve since joining the Flames. I'm unsure of just how terrible your memory is, but try to remember the Joe Colborne that was traded from Toronto. That Joe Colborne wasn't much more than a big body who could score shoot-out goals. Today's Joe Colborne can play physical, is great along the boards, has improved his footspeed while gaining mass and seems to be able to score his amazing shootout goals on break-aways now.

You don't throw away a 25 year old asset that you spent 2 NHL seasons developing. That's something Craig button would do if he was still GM.

Colborne has a higher upside than Granlund and Jooris. These players don't have the attributes of a potential 2nd liner, but Colborne certainly still does. He was playing 2nd line minutes near the end of last season so I don't know why the addition of Frolik means he's now competing for 4th line minutes..

[saillias]

It's a pretty hard sell for me if you're using "potential" when we're talking about Joe Colborne. He's passed the general age where a forward figures it out. He improved from 2013 to 2014. But I don't think he really improved all that much from 2014 to 2015.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by saillias

It's a pretty hard sell for me if you're using "potential" when we're talking about Joe Colborne. He's passed the general age where a forward figures it out. He improved from 2013 to 2014. But I don't think he really improved all that much from 2014 to 2015.

Agreed, the only progression I saw was in the Playoffs when he began to actually use his size to protect the puck and cycle effectively (albeit with some growing pains in terms of over-using his size). If this progression continues, then he could be a key player. If not, then he is expendable.

As of right now I would actually take Bouma, Ferland, Byron and Jooris (not to mention guys like Granlund, Arnold, Agostino) over him as they are younger with more (IMO) potential as effective bottom 6 wingers.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by saillias

It's a pretty hard sell for me if you're using "potential" when we're talking about Joe Colborne. He's passed the general age where a forward figures it out. He improved from 2013 to 2014. But I don't think he really improved all that much from 2014 to 2015.

Can you elaborate or provide any evidence of this?

He had the same amount of points in 16 fewer games last season.. He went from -17 to +7. Stats aside, he looked much improved last year compared to 13/14.

And as with most 6 foot 5 hockey players, he's a late bloomer. Yes he's 25 but he's only just grown into his body. He's got the size to go along with the height which will allow him to be a more impactful player.

It's a season too soon to give up on Joe Colborne. I'm confident he will excel next year and am willing to eat crow if he doesn't