If Shore had a future with the Flames he would've seen more action down the stretch... Treliving said nice things about him when he made that trade, sure. He also said nice things about Setoguchi when he banished him to the AHL.
He occasionally cracked the 4th line of our injury depleted roster. He won't be anything more than a 13th forward.
This is incredibly short sighted.
As are the comments above about Granlund.
I mentioned this earlier in this thread: Some people here are absolutely spoiled by Gaudreau, Monahan and Bennett stepping in and making an immediate impact.
That is the exception, not the rule. Just because a young player doesn't step into the NHL and make immediate strides doesn't mean their potential will never be realized. It's ridiculous to draw conclusions about Shore based on his brief stint late in the season. It's equally absurd to suggest Granlund isn't going to develop into a much better player than we saw this season based on his rookie year.
People really need to realize that the majority of young players will have ups and downs as they enter and acclimatize themselves to the NHL.
The expectation level from some people is off the charts recently.
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You can't just give up on all your young, self-developed players. I don't think he's going anywhere as he's got good skills, hockey smarts, and there isn't a team in the league that can't use a player like him.
For all your vague talk about his usefulness, you also didn't actually say where you see him fitting in. Not at center unless we intend to get smaller. Not suited to be a winger on an energy line, he's neither fast or big enough. So far hasn't shown to be a specialist in either PP or PK.
I guess he could have a breakout offensive year down the road, but let's remember that his more talented brother has barely put up 40 points playing a first line role with Parise.
Quote:
Never make the mistake of writing off players because they don't impress in their first playoffs as Datsyuk was horrible in his first few playoff series and he turned out pretty good.
Completely irrelevant comparison, as Markus Granlund has never displayed that kind of high end talent.
There's a big difference between a player a team can use, and a player a team needs. The former tend to be traded eventually.
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Completely irrelevant comparison, as Markus Granlund has never displayed that kind of high end talent.
It's not irrelevant though, because there could have just as easily been Wings fans talking about Datsyuk failing to impress after his first season / playoffs and asking where he fits in based on extremely premature and limited viewing. Don't forget where he was drafted.
Because as mentioned above, not all prospects come full tilt out of the gate into the NHL.
And Granlund has indeed showcased high end skills as a young player in Finland on many occasions.
Not sure how you can say that being a Fin and having seen him light it up at several junior tournaments.
Your entire take seems to stem from a narrow view of what he's shown in the NHL so far, which was his rookie season. Way too soon to be suggesting what he projects as long term. Trying to decide where a player fits in before there's been any room for growth couldn't be more premature.
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Your entire take seems to stem from a narrow view of what he's shown in the NHL so far, which was his rookie season. Way too soon to be suggesting what he projects as long term. Trying to decide where a player fits in before there's been any room for growth couldn't be more premature.
It doesn't, and it's not.
The Granlunds have been on my radar for quite a while, and while Mikael was considered an exciting prospect, Markus was not. His junior performances did very little to change that. His strongest asset during those tournaments was that he had a very complete game for his age. That's nice for those tournaments, but means nothing going forward. Other young players will fill out their game, but Granlund will not become significantly more skilled, better at skating or bigger.
Granlund is also 22 and has played his first season. Forwards at this point can be pretty reliably projected for their potential future roles. Exceptions do happen, but they're not common. Guys that surprise tend to be like Colborne; solid skills and physical qualities, but having trouble putting it all together. Granlund is the exact opposite of that.
Again, that's not to say that I think Markus Granlund can't make it in the NHL. But I think it's ridiculous to expect him to develop into something special.
He's also not magically going to become the type of player we need on this team. He's not even a right-handed shot.
(Datsyuk btw after his first season was considered an exciting prospect, and did not surprise when he broke 50 points in just 64 games in his second season. This is natural considering he actually had a pretty good rookie year, with 70 games and 35 points in the regular season and playing all 21 games in the post-season on a Stanley Cup winning team. His biggest issue after his first season was conditioning.
The Granlunds have been on my radar for quite a while, and while Mikael was considered an exciting prospect, Markus was not. His junior performances did very little to change that. His strongest asset during those tournaments was that he had a very complete game for his age. That's nice for those tournaments, but means nothing going forward. Other young players will fill out their game, but Granlund will not become significantly more skilled, better at skating or bigger.
Granlund is also 22 and has played his first season. Forwards at this point can be pretty reliably projected for their future roles. Exceptions do happen, but they're not common. Guys that surprise tend to be like Colborne; solid skills and physical qualities, but having trouble putting it all together. Granlund is the exact opposite of that.
Again, that's not to say that I think Markus Granlund can't make it in the NHL. But I think it's ridiculous to expect him to develop into something special.
He's also not magically going to become the type of player we need on this team. He's not even a right-handed shot.
(Datsyuk btw after his first season was considered an exciting prospect, and did not surprise when he broke 50 points in just 64 games in his second season. This is natural considering he actually had a pretty good rookie year, with 70 games and 35 points in the regular season and playing all 21 games in the post-season on a Stanley Cup winning team. His biggest issue after his first season was conditioning.
So you know. Bad comparison.)
Who here said anything like that? You keep talking about the type of player the Flames need. Can you please elaborate on that and explain why Granlund doesn't fit in rather than just saying it like it's truth?
Here are some comparable contracts signed within the past two years:
Tyler Bozak - $4.2 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 49 point season (pro-rated)
Brooks Laich - $4.5 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 41 point season
Brandon Dubinsky - $4.2 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 34 point season
Kyle Turris - $3.5 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 50 point season (pro-rated)
Mike Fisher - $4.2 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 45 point season (pro-rated)
Let's analyze the success of those teams. Leafs stink. You can argue that Kuznetsov is the #2 center of the Caps. Jackets stink. Senators pretty meh. The fact Fisher is the Preds 2nd line center is probably why they never have playoff success.
It appears if you seek mediocrity then Backlund may be an ideal 2nd line center but why don't you identify the 2nd line centers of the last four teams in contention for the cup as you would see that a 40-50 point 2nd line center likely isn't going to get it done if the ultimate goal is to win the cup.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 05-15-2015 at 08:33 AM.
I guess I have to add that I'm not saying that we should get rid of Granlund. Surprises do happen and he is far from useless as is, so unless there's a compelling trade offer, there's no reason to not keep him around.
I'm just saying that my expectations are low here.
Backs has a future here is he is okay being the third line shutdown C. I think as early as next year Bennett will be in a scoring 2nd line role and we know Monahan can also handle the tough matchups. A Bouma-Backlund-Colborne third line could be excellent in a playoff series. 3 years $9.5M or 4 years $12M for Backs is what I would be okay with. He can double his salary but he has durability issues and still lacks the offensive punch to really earn north of $3M.
I also think a decision on Backs and Granlund will be made this offseason. I think one is gone just not sure which one. To me Granlund and one of our seconds might be dangled to a team with cap problems to add a Dman or top 6 forward from a team looking to shed cap (Oshie, Sharp etc). If Backlund demands too much then I see him as trade bait to a team looking for a veteran that still has several years ahead. A team like Vancouver, Toronto, Phoenix etc could have interest in Backs
I guess I have to add that I'm not saying that we should get rid of Granlund. Surprises do happen and he is far from useless as is, so unless there's a compelling trade offer, there's no reason to not keep him around.
I'm just saying that my expectations are low here.
Granlund certainly is expendable in a trade as are the majority of Flames forwards but it's my belief when you are on to building something like the Flames are that you don't go overboard moving players out. I have no issue moving out any of the forwards on the roster outside of Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler, Bennett to get a quality goaltender or defenseman for sure but I would be cautious moving too many depth guys out for draft picks and spare parts.
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Tyler Bozak - $4.2 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 49 point season (pro-rated)
Brooks Laich - $4.5 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 41 point season
Brandon Dubinsky - $4.2 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 34 point season
Kyle Turris - $3.5 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 50 point season (pro-rated)
Mike Fisher - $4.2 million aav signed when he was coming off of a 45 point season (pro-rated)
I see stupid Maple Leaf money, and an extremely high draft pick (witch does make a big difference in RFA money), and experienced NHL players who could have been UFAs. You make it look like the over under on Backlunds contract should be about $4M. I think it should be more like vary high 2's.
If I were betting on this Backlunds contract I would set the over under on term at 2.5.
IMO chances are
~45% 2 year deal
~35% 3 year deal
~15% 4 Year deal
~5% Other
And on Dollars it would be 2.96.
50% $2.95M or under
50% $3M or higher
Another think to note the Flames are allot more likely to play hard ball right now with Bouma and Backlund to set the tone fore Monahan & Gaudreau next year. They need to build a culture of a home town discount.
I'm hoping to see Backs continue his development , he came to camp looking much stronger/bigger.
but when he came back from his surgery he looked smaller.
If he can get stronger again this summer Backs/Bouma/Jones , is a solid 3rd line skill,grit,scoring,smarts, decent speed.
exactly the kind of depth in the line up we need.
I'm gonna guess he gets aav $3.5-4 mill over 3 years , which imho is fair dollar for the player
(26) C - Mikael Backlund
(25) LW - Lance Bouma
(23) LW - Micheal Ferland
(25) C - Josh Jooris
(26) F - Paul Byron
(24) C - Drew Shore
(23) C - Bill Arnold
(26) LW - David Wolf
(23) C - Max Reinhart
(23) LW - Kenny Agostino
(23) F - Turner Elson
(25) RW - Ben Hanowski
(23) LW - Bryce Van Brabant
Defense (3)
(24) RD - Sena Acolatse
(24) RD - John Ramage
(26) LD - Chad Billins (Played in Europe & Flames still hold his rights)
No, thanks. It's price burn cap hit for next year with singing Giordano, Monahan, Gaudreau, Russell etc. I hear Switzerland is really nice...
