I think Ovechkin should get the Hart, do you?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

But AO is a goof and I don't like him.

He's a bit "goofy" but I highly doubt he's a goof. From all accounts his teammates love him off the ice as well as on.

BTW, your Avatar is beyond "goofy" for a long time flames fan.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You keep dredging up the term goof. Why?

Because that's the word I think applies best to him.
I acknowledge it isn't a particularly in-depth analysis or anything. I just don't like him - and never have.
Because I think he's a goof

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by T@T

He's a bit "goofy" but I highly doubt he's a goof. From all accounts his teammates love him off the ice as well as on.

BTW, your Avatar is beyond "goofy" for a long time flames fan.

Derp.

[vilzeh]

Price has it locked up pretty sure. Ovechkin should be the runner up though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well you kinda do have to qualify that. Canada had unimaginably great teams in the Olympics. Perhaps the greatest hockey squads every assembled. Ovi beating Canada would be a stretch.

Is anyone going to argue Cristiano Ronaldo isn't that good because of Portugal's lack of major championships?

You're comparing Portugal to Russia? At least try to resemble reality a little. We're not talking Switzerland here.

Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Radulov and Semin for a top 6.

Many people argued that they were the most talented team.

Playing at home. On big ice.

They were co-favorites with Canada.

And what did they do? What did Ovechkin in particular do?

[Enoch Root]

The Canadian team came together and BECAME one of the best teams in history. That wasn't bestowed on them before the tournament started.

As I said, the Russians were co-favorites going in.

It's what you DO in the big games that matters.

[vilzeh]

You said it, Canadian _TEAM_! Russia doesn't know what TEAM means.

[Daradon]

The finalists should be Price, Dubnyk, and Ovechkin.

Personally I'd give it to Dubnyk. Not that I dislike Price or Ovechkin, I like them both, and both are deserving. But I really don't know how you don't give it to Dubnyk right now. He is the most important player to his team in the league without question.

He's gonna lose some votes on games played and the fact that he isn't a Canadien though. Price probably gets it, which in any other season he should walk away with it easily. The story behind Dubnyk and Minnesota though... wow!

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You keep dredging up the term goof. Why?

Sometimes people don't like people for no particular reason. It happens all the time in life. Maybe it's the voice, some random mannerism, something about someone's face. Who knows.

This is probably one of those cases. There's really no reason and that's okay heh.

As for me, I'm okay with either taking the Hart.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Radulov and Semin for a top 6.

Many people argued that they were the most talented team.

Who were their defensemen?

A team is not just a bunch of Forwards. That kind of logic is why the Stars didn't make the playoffs and the Oilers didn't even make the top 25 teams. Even a great goaltender like Varlamov is not head and shoulders above a great goaltender like Luongo or Price.

[Biyaaaah]

Could argue that he's not even the most valuable player on his team. Backstrom has a far bigger role and allows OV to play a one way game.

Need to see OV step up in big games. He's usually a no show floating around turning the puck over on horrible plays. He needs to prove that he can be a factor when it matters.

For now he's the Brett Hull of his generation. No question he's a great scorer but certainly not in the same league as guys like Crosby and Toews. As a pure scorer I'd take Kane over him, especially in crunch time.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Who were their defensemen?

A team is not just a bunch of Forwards. That kind of logic is why the Stars didn't make the playoffs and the Oilers didn't even make the top 25 teams. Even a great goaltender like Varlamov is not head and shoulders above a great goaltender like Luongo or Price.

It's not 'logic', I was simply stating facts.

The Russians were co-favorites for gold. Not by me. By the media and talking heads. It's a simple statement. Though, for the record, I didn't think they should be, for the very reasons you mentioned.

But someone suggested that Ovechkin's lack of team accomplishments should be dismissed because his teams weren't good. My argument, in bringing up the Olympic team is that that is categorically false. The Russians were supremely talented but massively under-performed.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Biyaaaah

Could argue that he's not even the most valuable player on his team. Backstrom has a far bigger role and allows OV to play a one way game.

Need to see OV step up in big games. He's usually a no show floating around turning the puck over on horrible plays. He needs to prove that he can be a factor when it matters.

For now he's the Brett Hull of his generation. No question he's a great scorer but certainly not in the same league as guys like Crosby and Toews. As a pure scorer I'd take Kane over him, especially in crunch time.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes he does, Backstrom is by far the better overall player and without him your boy Ovi does not come close to 50. I don't think there is a single GM that would choose AO over Backstrom if they could have one of them on their team. Maybe if they were already stacked at C like Pittsburgh but most GM's I would think would certainly take Backstrom who might not be the elite sniper Ovechkin is, but is better at every other facet of the game.

[Iggy Snipe]

Price. HUGE reason why the Canadiens are as good as they are.

I would even go as far as saying Tavares deserves the Hart over Ovy.

Lets not forget Crosby is leading the league in points again, although not a Hart worthy performance this season IMO. Still the best player in the League though.

Ovy scores a ton, and the guy basically gets 50 every season, but he plays at one end of the ice, and has no play making abilities. He doesn't make players around him better. He is an elite shooter but not very good without the puck. Backstrom is a huge asset to Ovys line, and he wouldn't have as many goals with out a puck distributer like him.

[OutOfTheCube]

Ovi and Crosby are both first ballot hall of famers. Both will likely win multiple more trophies and possibly championships. Yzerman was an elite talent but didn't lead his team to a cup til he was in his 30's.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes he does, Backstrom is by far the better overall player and without him your boy Ovi does not come close to 50. I don't think there is a single GM that would choose AO over Backstrom if they could have one of them on their team. Maybe if they were already stacked at C like Pittsburgh but most GM's I would think would certainly take Backstrom who might not be the elite sniper Ovechkin is, but is better at every other facet of the game.

Is that so? How many points do you think Backstrom attains without a 50 goal scorer on his wing? Very good center no doubt but that's kind of a laughable statement right there as we are talking about one of the all time great left wingers in the game vs a center that will probably not make the HOF.

So excuses agains Ovechkin seem to be;

a) He's a one way player (Jarome Iginla and 80% of players inducted in the HOF)
b) Hasn't won a cup (Marcel Dionne, heck Jarome Iginla)
c) Isn't even the most valuable player on his team (Evgeni Malkin)
d) He's a goof (Okay I got nothing here)

Lots of excuses but his numbers will cement him in as the most prolific goal scorers in the history of the NHL. Crosby won't even come remotely close to that and as far as career point totals are concerned they are probably going to finish within a hundred points of each other.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Iggy Snipe

Price. HUGE reason why the Canadiens are as good as they are.

I would even go as far as saying Tavares deserves the Hart over Ovy.

Lets not forget Crosby is leading the league in points again, although not a Hart worthy performance this season IMO. Still the best player in the League though.

Ovy scores a ton, and the guy basically gets 50 every season, but he plays at one end of the ice, and has no play making abilities. He doesn't make players around him better. He is an elite shooter but not very good without the puck. Backstrom is a huge asset to Ovys line, and he wouldn't have as many goals with out a puck distributer like him.

Price is definitely a huge reason for Canadiens success. Crosby for my money is still the best player in the world.

But you can't honestly sit there and downply Ovi's accomplishments THIS year. 11 game winning goals. That is 22 points in the standings directly attributed to him. Price has been instrumental, and I'm sure he's contributed at least 22 points to his teams success too. However, 52 goals with a few games to spare is exceedingly rare in this era, and especially this year. And although a goal and assist both count as a point for a player, I'd never place a former Hart winner like Sedin in the same conversation as a guy who averages 47 goals a year. Goals are harder to come by.

The league average for goals per player is 7.2
The league average for assists per player is 19.5

[Paladium]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes he does, Backstrom is by far the better overall player and without him your boy Ovi does not come close to 50. I don't think there is a single GM that would choose AO over Backstrom if they could have one of them on their team. Maybe if they were already stacked at C like Pittsburgh but most GM's I would think would certainly take Backstrom who might not be the elite sniper Ovechkin is, but is better at every other facet of the game.

Why would a GM take a play-maker over one of the best natural goal scorers - if ovi isn't there who would he be passing to? Ovi will score a lot of goals just on his own.

Although people say ovi is one dimensional - and i am no capitals fan the one thing I can say is that guy can dish it out i have seen countless of highlights of him just hammering guys - which is most of the time the furthest thing from the truth most other natural goal scorers are willing to do.

As for the hart I am with dubnyk. I like how everyone argues that basically the Canadiens are a bubble team without price - please they were in the conference finals last year from what i can remember - but the wild were dead in the water and now look at them - if there was one team I would not want to play in the 1st round it's minnesota. Finally the west is much harder than the east and since they acquired Dubnyk they have wone something like 6 more games then their nearest rivals - although he lost tonight - which is good for us.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes he does, Backstrom is by far the better overall player and without him your boy Ovi does not come close to 50. I don't think there is a single GM that would choose AO over Backstrom if they could have one of them on their team. Maybe if they were already stacked at C like Pittsburgh but most GM's I would think would certainly take Backstrom who might not be the elite sniper Ovechkin is, but is better at every other facet of the game.

I didn't know Backstrom holds the stick for Ovi when he shoots the puck.