Lines when Colborne/Backs/Raymond are all back

[cannon7]

I think Granlund has secured a roster spot. He's playing in all situations now, has been one of the smartest players we have. I think Baertschi gets sent down first. He's had great chemistry with Byron but he was the biggest factor in the first two goals against last night. The first one he failed to clear the zone and the second he turned the puck over trying to avoid a check. Coaches remember those kinds of plays. Next to be sent down is Jooris. I really like his game, but he has not been consistent enough outside of the faceoff circle. Sure the multi-point games are awesome, but there's too many games inbetween where he's a non-factor. I really liked what I saw from him last night, though. Throwing the body around when it seemed like the Flames' were being physically dominated.

That being said, I think we have too many one-way contracts. Setoguchi is not bringing anything to the table aside from a right-handed shot. Unfortunately no one is gonna touch him. Stajan was playing OK before he got hurt, but he was just OK. Maybe a team looking for leadership and a good faceoff man will take a flyer on him? Jones is made of glass and keeps us above the cap floor -- not going anywhere. But I think someone is gonna get moved to keep Granlund. And the pressure will be on for the pros who aren't playing up to Jooris' level.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You must have missed Burke's comment the other day when he said the team still needs to get bigger.

I heard the fan talk about it - did he say he wants to get bigger this year? I just assumed that he would reference to needing to be bigger before we were a serious contender which we do get bigger with next years squad.

[Nme-Territory]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You must have missed Burke's comment the other day when he said the team still needs to get bigger.

I can see his point, but at what cost? Hudler, Gaudreau, Russell and Byron are a part of this time moving forward, but they aren't going to get bigger in any meaningful way. The rest of the roster has size to varying degrees but to "get bigger" in a significant way... I can't see how you accomplish this without subtracting any of the above stated players.

I have a feeling an unpopular move is going to be made in the name of getting bigger.

[waner]

Originally Posted by Nme-Territory

I can see his point, but at what cost? Hudler, Gaudreau, Russell and Byron are a part of this time moving forward, but they aren't going to get bigger in any meaningful way. The rest of the roster has size to varying degrees but to "get bigger" in a significant way... I can't see how you accomplish this without subtracting any of the above stated players.

I have a feeling an unpopular move is going to be made in the name of getting bigger.

I can't think of a team that had success with a top 9 that had as many small guys as the Flames would if they had all of Hudler, Baertschi, Granlund, Gaudreau, Byron taking up 5 of those 9 spots. You likely are going to see some subtracting whether in a trade or not. Even without Baertschi there that is a small top 9 with the 4 guys and a fairly average group of forwards physically with them.

I think the easist move is to trade Hudler for a more physical 2nd line guy. Not sure who because I (and most fans) are terrible at making up deals. But if you can add a guy 6'2, 210+ who has maybe 20 and 20 potential it might be worth it to lose the extra 10-15 points Hudler may get you to get some size in the top 6.

I don't think Burke or anyone is advocating moving any of those guys for Colton Orr or Fraser Mclaren.

[heep223]

I would be so sad if we traded Hudler. I really really hope this doesn't happen.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Nme-Territory

I have a feeling an unpopular move is going to be made in the name of getting bigger.

You can bet on it.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Nme-Territory

I can see his point, but at what cost? Hudler, Gaudreau, Russell and Byron are a part of this time moving forward, but they aren't going to get bigger in any meaningful way. The rest of the roster has size to varying degrees but to "get bigger" in a significant way... I can't see how you accomplish this without subtracting any of the above stated players.

I have a feeling an unpopular move is going to be made in the name of getting bigger.

I respectfully disagree that the bolded have to be a part of this team moving forward. You want to start calling our 2nd, 3rd line wingers untouchables, before we even make the playoffs?

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by waner

I can't think of a team that had success with a top 9 that had as many small guys as the Flames would if they had all of Hudler, Baertschi, Granlund, Gaudreau, Byron taking up 5 of those 9 spots. You likely are going to see some subtracting whether in a trade or not. Even without Baertschi there that is a small top 9 with the 4 guys and a fairly average group of forwards physically with them.

I think the easist move is to trade Hudler for a more physical 2nd line guy. Not sure who because I (and most fans) are terrible at making up deals. But if you can add a guy 6'2, 210+ who has maybe 20 and 20 potential it might be worth it to lose the extra 10-15 points Hudler may get you to get some size in the top 6.

I don't think Burke or anyone is advocating moving any of those guys for Colton Orr or Fraser Mclaren.

The team is winning and the team is scoring. Hudler would fetch the best return in a trade, sure, but to lose him at this point in time would be silly. He's our highest-scoring forward and a positive force in the dressing room.

[_Q_]

Granlund is 6'0.

Since when is six feet tall considered small? Yeah he's not a giant by all means, but his size isn't an issue.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Ferland will get a bit of a look before he is sent down. I guess you can argue that it would be good to send him down and get him some games and then recall him later on, but I think he may stay up because of Setoguchi. Flames do want to be bigger and tougher, and Hartley definitely wants a net-front presence on the PP. Ferland can give them both. Setoguchi just isn't working on the PP - at least not directly (maybe he is doing enough to screen the goalie on some shots, but isn't getting any points).

Really hate it that Ferland didn't have much of a chance to showcase himself at the NHL level yet. I do think he will get sent down once healthy as well, but I do think he does make an interesting case to keep around for a few games. Terrible luck by this kid.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Granlund is 6'0.

Since when is six feet tall considered small? Yeah he's not a giant by all means, but his size isn't an issue.

NHL average last year was 6'1" 203lbs.

So yeah at 5'11" 185lbs I'd put Granlund at undersized/below average, but wouldn't say he is small.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think Ferland will get a bit of a look before he is sent down. I guess you can argue that it would be good to send him down and get him some games and then recall him later on, but I think he may stay up because of Setoguchi. Flames do want to be bigger and tougher, and Hartley definitely wants a net-front presence on the PP. Ferland can give them both. Setoguchi just isn't working on the PP - at least not directly (maybe he is doing enough to screen the goalie on some shots, but isn't getting any points).

Really hate it that Ferland didn't have much of a chance to showcase himself at the NHL level yet. I do think he will get sent down once healthy as well, but I do think he does make an interesting case to keep around for a few games. Terrible luck by this kid.

I'd love to see some more out of Ferland, even if it's just 4th line minutes (I see him more of a 3rd liner).

[waner]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

The team is winning and the team is scoring. Hudler would fetch the best return in a trade, sure, but to lose him at this point in time would be silly. He's our highest-scoring forward and a positive force in the dressing room.

The team is doing well 20 games into the season and it may last or not. If it does last it may or may not be a good style to play in the play-offs but history has shown that small teams do not have great success in the play-offs, especially in the Western Conference.

Someone in another thread brought up Chicago but I would say their top 4 defensemen (Keith, Seabrook, Oduya and Hjarmallson) are all more physical than everyone in our top 4 outside of Gio. They may not be huge but Bickell, Saad, Hossa are all pretty big guys and outside of Kane none of their top 9 is as small as Byron, Gaudreau, Hudler, Granlund. (Maybe Shaw but he is much more physical of a guy).

Depending on results when LA and Van catch up in GP we could easily be in 4th in the division, not bad considering expectations but still showing the team needs to grow.

Getting to being competitive is a good first step but getting to be a contender for the Cup is the ultimate goal and that is likely going to take moving guys that become fan favorites.

Again I don't think anyone is saying trade Hudler willy nilly but he does seem to be the guy that will have a diminishing role by the time contending goes around, seems to be a guy that has a style that is a deep area in the Flames young players and is a guy that would get back some value. I personally would love to trade Setoguchi, Bollig or Smid to add size to our top 6 but that just isn't likely to happen.

[Nme-Territory]

Originally Posted by saillias

I respectfully disagree that the bolded have to be a part of this team moving forward. You want to start calling our 2nd, 3rd line wingers untouchables, before we even make the playoffs?

Who said untouchable? Its not a word I throw around lightly.

My assertion was simply that small players have been driving this team forward and creating success. By saying they are a part of this team moving forward I am only implying that they have earned spots with the big club.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Granlund is 6'0.

Since when is six feet tall considered small? Yeah he's not a giant by all means, but his size isn't an issue.

When Burke says the Flames need to get bigger, I assume he means that the team needs more 6'2"+ skaters playing meaningful minutes. Since I don't see any internal candidates fitting the bill anytime soon, I'm assuming there will have to be trades.

The timing of trades is funny. When the team is playing poorly, the accepted wisdom is that you're dealing from a position of weakness, so it's not a good time to make a deal. When the team is playing well, nobody wants to change anything out of fear it will mess up the chemistry.

I doubt management feels any urgency about the size issue. But it seems pretty clear that addressing it is on their mid-term TO DO list.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Nme-Territory

I have a feeling an unpopular move is going to be made in the name of getting bigger.

doubt it, Treliving is the GM not Burke.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You must have missed Burke's comment the other day when he said the team still needs to get bigger.

To be fair;
Burke is in the business of making the team better.

We don't need to get faster.
We seem fine in puck skills.
We've got things covered in goal.
We have elite defensemen.
We're young and cheap.
We're more than fine in consistency and work ethic.
We're well conditioned.


Why not talk about size? It's not like we're big game hunting for star forwards.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by waner

The team is doing well 20 games into the season and it may last or not. If it does last it may or may not be a good style to play in the play-offs but history has shown that small teams do not have great success in the play-offs, especially in the Western Conference.

Someone in another thread brought up Chicago but I would say their top 4 defensemen (Keith, Seabrook, Oduya and Hjarmallson) are all more physical than everyone in our top 4 outside of Gio. They may not be huge but Bickell, Saad, Hossa are all pretty big guys and outside of Kane none of their top 9 is as small as Byron, Gaudreau, Hudler, Granlund. (Maybe Shaw but he is much more physical of a guy).

Depending on results when LA and Van catch up in GP we could easily be in 4th in the division, not bad considering expectations but still showing the team needs to grow.

Getting to being competitive is a good first step but getting to be a contender for the Cup is the ultimate goal and that is likely going to take moving guys that become fan favorites.

Again I don't think anyone is saying trade Hudler willy nilly but he does seem to be the guy that will have a diminishing role by the time contending goes around, seems to be a guy that has a style that is a deep area in the Flames young players and is a guy that would get back some value. I personally would love to trade Setoguchi, Bollig or Smid to add size to our top 6 but that just isn't likely to happen.

At this point, when the team is having unexpected success, it wouldn't be a good idea to trade Hudler. You're right though; there's no doubt that our lack of size should be an issue. It's like Snow White's 7 little friends are wearing Flames silks sometimes. Our really small guys (Hudler, Gaudreau, Byron & Russell) are all key to the current success of this team, so I don't think there's a simple solution to this problem.

Once Colborne is back in the frame we'll have our PP net-front presence back. David Jones has been a useful big body when healthy (rare as that is). If Russell is out for awhile then I hope we get 6'1" 203lb Tyler Wotherspoon up from the farm.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Glencross-Monahan-Colborne
Raymond-Backlund-Jones
Gaudreau-Granlund-Hudler
Bouma-Stajan-Jooris

Pressbox: Byron, Bollig, McGrattan

Returned to AHL: Reinhart, Ferland, Baertschi

Waived: Setoguchi

Almost agree. I'd switch Backlund to 4th line and move Stajan to the 2nd though.

[442scotty]

Common sense would dictate that if the flames do make a trade it would be for a young defenseman with Brodie/Geo like skills.

But I really doubt that they will bring anyone else in whether it be a forward or defense . We have lots of size on the way from the farm and the draft and the flames can and will wait for home grown talent.

Guys will be leaving but unless its the deal of the century there will be no more players coming in. Guaranteed.