[PGT] Flames fall to TB 5-2

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The people complaining about Seto's PP time might consider how good the PP was tonight. It only got one goal but it was dangerous every time.

The other thing (which I keep mentioning) is that he plays a specific part on that unit. He goes behind the net and into the corner for the puck, and then goes to the front of the net. On the present roster, only a couple other guys do that, and they aren't Sven. Jooris maybe.

He has zero points on the power play and almost 2 minutes per night on it. He hasn't earned the time in his five on five play. This looks more like the team trying to get an offensive player going. And to this point failing in that effort.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by kehatch

He has zero points on the power play and almost 2 minutes per night on it. He hasn't earned the time in his five on five play. This looks more like the team trying to get an offensive player going. And to this point failing in that effort.

You make a positive sound like a negative.

How dare they give him decent ice time and time on the PP to see what he's got. He should be on the 4th line getting 5-8 minutes a game, then we can criticise him for doing nothing and being useless despite not being given any chance to prove otherwise.

Stop with all this "hasn't earned" stuff. Glencross, Jones, Setoguchi, Svens recall, Diaz, Engelland. Have any of those players truly earned the ice time they were given tonight in previous games? Have any of them earned a start in the next game? No, but they will get it. You are taking the "always earned" quote way too literally and using it way too sporadically.

[GioforPM]

BTW, Sven had more time than a bunch of players, and about the same as Hartley's favorite Bouma. Jones got less, Bollig got less. JG was cut way down.

I thought Sven had his best game. But it wasn't as good as guys who got more ice time IMO, mainly because he bailed on some physical plays.

[djsFlames]

A positive to take from tonight?

Giordano is 4 points back of Sidney Crosby.

Lol.

[DoubleF]

Wow. We lose one this badly in quite a long time stretch of games and you guys start tearing each other apart like animals.

Also, is this the grading method we're using for the players or something?

A - Average
B - Bearable
C - Crap
D - Dead to me/ Demotion desired
F - Forgotten

Seriously. We still sit 9th in league (at least last I checked). This is still way better than the expected 29th. It's almost like some of us are angry because we aren't ranked 2nd in league after this game or something.

[GioforPM]

Setoguchi may have zero points on the PP but they are doing well with him on it. Again, who do you want on it? That can play the net front role that is.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Gio-Brodie is up there with Weber-Suter. And that didn't last due to contractual situations. Nice situation right here.

[GioforPM]

I thought Hiller was great, though his stats will suffer. That said, I'd bet Ramo gets the next start. He's due, and a loss gives Hartley the reason to go away from the hot hand.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Wow. We lose one this badly in quite a long time stretch of games and you guys start tearing each other apart like animals.

Also, is this the grading method we're using for the players or something?

A - Average
B - Bearable
C - Crap
D - Dead to me/ Demotion desired
F - Forgotten

Seriously. We still sit 9th in league (at least last I checked). This is still way better than the expected 29th. It's almost like some of us are angry because we aren't ranked 2nd in league after this game or something.

Hah. You are correct. Though tonight, I'd give Monahan an A+. The fwds except Bolland and maybe Glencross were average to bearable and those two were crap and forgotten respectively. The Top D was Ok (not their best game). The bottom 4 were crap, and the reason the game was lost. The lack of a clean breakout was the whole game IMO.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Setoguchi is playing due to a lack of big bodies in the top 6, and a lack of a strong net-front presence on the PP. For those that wish Baertschi to replace Seto on the PP, I don't think he can. Like some other posters pointed out, his game is more suited to the half-boards, not as a screen for the goalie and trying to make tips/clean up garbage. I bet he instantly gets replaced on that top PP unit the second Colborne is cleared to play again. Aside from Sven simply not earning that PP time, he simply can't be utilized in that manner on the PP.

As for Sven, he had more flashes and more hustle at times, and then he wilts at other times. He does lose quite a number of puck battles - not sure if it is still a strength issue, an adjustment issue, or just a compete issue. I am leaning more towards the latter (though I do think he had a bit more compete in him tonight on average) based on that especially disappointing icing in the first. Just skate a little bit more before dumping it! Plays like that completely frustrate any coach. Sven NEEDS to be better than he was, regardless of what his advanced stats say. He seems to compete and skate much harder in the offensive zone than in the defensive zone. There was definite improvement in his game, and I think there was more effort on his part, but a few glaring mistakes. I was surprised he was one of the forward leaders in ice-time when I checked that stat in the first period - was over the 7 minute mark when most other forwards were at 6 or lower. Hartley was giving him more ice, but I think the mistakes and the consistent inability to win puck-battles eventually minimized his time.

The whole team seemed disjointed tonight. Tampa just kept rolling at the Flames, and there was simply way too many defensive breakdowns. Flames at times had trouble making smart outlet passes as we have started growing accustomed to it. They completely neutralized the Flames' defensive system at times, especially with an often uncontested zone entry. Flames I find are very, very effective at pressuring the other team's offensive zone entries.

Still, just an off-game. You need to see a few of these types of performances in a row before worry sets-in anyways - elite teams have garbage games and elite teams get blown out. Flames get a chance to get back in their groove against Florida, and Carolina will be a tougher matchup than their record indicates (and what the last game against them showed). Staal is back. Carolina was a team in complete disarray and completely lost, but they seem to be getting their groove back lately. Will prove a much tougher game than they were last time. I bet they crawl out of the bottom during the season.

I thought Gaudreau had a fairly weak game as well - too many mistakes and giveaways. Seems players are starting to get a read on his curl-back and cross-ice pass. I think he just needs to simply his game for the next few outings, or it just may be the effects of the flu. He definitely hasn't looked his 'impressive' self lately, and much more like he has been in the first 5 games of the season. He does hustle out there, especially when he turns the puck over.

Monahan - seriously, he is the next captain. With the rash of injuries to key players, Hartley keeps challenging him and he just keeps answering those challenges well. I really wonder what he is going to end up being 2-3 seasons from now. He is going to be a player other teams are going to have fits about. I know everyone compares him to Toews, but I think he had a very "Kopitar-esque" game tonight. Just a guy who goes exactly where he is supposed to, makes the right play, shuts down his assignment, and hurts you on the scoresheet - while being very 'quiet' in doing so. So quiet, that he only a few people have been commenting on him (though in all fairness, everyone seems so fixated on Baertschi).

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hah. You are correct. Though tonight, I'd give Monahan an A+. The fwds except Bolland and maybe Glencross were average to bearable and those two were crap and forgotten respectively. The Top D was Ok (not their best game). The bottom 4 were crap, and the reason the game was lost. The lack of a clean breakout was the whole game IMO.

To see Barts, Setoguchi with a +/- of 0 vs the rest of the team's +/-; I'm calling that a victory of sorts.

We slipped hard today. It happens. But I think something some people are already starting to take for granted is that the team doesn't give up when things look bleak.

[GioforPM]

Did JG get an assist on Monahan's goal? I agree he has not looked as good. I think perhaps people got carried away with his two or three fantastic games. In fact, the majority of his games have been just OK. The effort is there, but he hasn't had the success. Hope it's just the flu.

Tampa is good. They've won 4 in a row, scoring 5 goals each game. They are the toughest team on this trip. Let's not forget that. And Calgary stayed in it for quite a while despite not being at their best.

Calgary has Fla and Carolina. They have a decent chance to go 4-1 on the trip. Calgarys game in the first two periods was enough to outplay either of those teams.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Did JG get an assist on Monahan's goal? I agree he has not looked as good. I think perhaps people got carried away with his two or three fantastic games. In fact, the majority of his games have been just OK. The effort is there, but he hasn't had the success. Hope it's just the flu.

Tampa is good. They've won 4 in a row, scoring 5 goals each game. They are the toughest team on this trip. Let's not forget that. And Calgary stayed in it for quite a while despite not being at their best.

Calgary has Fla and Carolina. They have a decent chance to go 4-1 on the trip. Calgarys game in the first two periods was enough to outplay either of those teams.

Yes, Johnny absolutely did. He will be fine

Agreed on all other paragraphs

[DeluxeMoustache]

I expect Russell had his eyes opened by TB trailing the pick carrier on the PP entry anticipating the drop pass and don't expect a rash of future problems. That's the benefit of smart players and smart coaching.

There were a couple of loud posts on either side and no shame losing this one.

Kudos to Hiller for some great saves on far too many breakaways. I can't believe how often the Flames D blew tires and this is surely an anomoly

[GioforPM]

I assume the ice was really bad. May be why all the blown tires happened, plus the bad breakout passes.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I assume the ice was really bad. May be why all the blown tires happened, plus the bad breakout passes.

Real professionals don't let this stuff affect their play and would have been able to overcome such an issue to win the game... blah blah blah blah you're wrong blah blah Sven blah blah

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Monahan - seriously, he is the next captain. With the rash of injuries to key players, Hartley keeps challenging him and he just keeps answering those challenges well. I really wonder what he is going to end up being 2-3 seasons from now. He is going to be a player other teams are going to have fits about.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. Not sure Monahan has the personality chops to be a locker room leader. It may come with time, but I doubt he's the proverbial "glue" in the dressing room required of a captain. That said, 10 years ago no one thought Giordano could be that guy, but well, here we are.

[AcGold]

That's got to suck for Tampa having to play on such terrible ice all the time. Amazing that the most elite hockey league has such marginal ice in so many arenas.

[Barnet Flame]

More breakaways than on a shootout loss. Need to sort that out, but man were TB quick on their skates or what!

[ForeverFlameFan]

Keep in mind we are playing some great hockey, even without the likes of Raymond, Backlund and Colborne. That's like one top 6 line for the Flames that we are missing.