[Rumour] Sven Baertschi's dad talks to Swiss newspaper about wanting out

[Travis Munroe]

Short term it was unfortunate for Sven while long term I think it is ideal and tough to see for a young kid - Had this been last year's team I have no doubt he would be on the opening day roster. He had a great camp IMO however it is a numbers game. The only spot for him is if Johny didnt make it (Johny outplayed him no question) or if we rotated him on the 4th line with McGrattan or Bollig which makes no sense for development.
Long term he is going to be on a team (flames) with a great young team and he has potential to be a star.
Is Joe on a 2 way contract? I thought Sven had a better camp than Joe however Joe showed last year that he can play and I expect him to step it up once he gells with his new linemates. If he struggles out of the gate, would he be the easiest person to send down and bring Sven up for another "trial"?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Baertschi's dad should be grateful his son wasn't drafted by a mickey-mouse organization like the Red Wings, where two to three seasons in the minors to learn a complete game is a standard phase of player development. And now that knuckle-dragging buffoon Yzerman had taken the same approach with the Lightning, who sure don't look like they're going anywhere as a team.

Detroit has basically never had a draft pick as high as Baertschi's #13

Their last 1st round draft pick 2010 - was #20 Sheahan 111 AHL games and 44 NHL games and counting.

Do you think they are going to keep 2013 #20 pick Mantha and 2014 #15 pick in the AHL for 2 to 3 years?

Baertschi 73 AHL games and counting and 51 NHL games

[BOSSY]

I asked my Dad - he said who cares what Sven's Dad says...

[Poe969]

ya well my dad can totally beat up Sven's dad.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

Is Joe on a 2 way contract? I thought Sven had a better camp than Joe however Joe showed last year that he can play and I expect him to step it up once he gells with his new linemates. If he struggles out of the gate, would he be the easiest person to send down and bring Sven up for another "trial"?

Colborne? Colborne would be subject to waivers if sent down (as he was last year). Further, Sven wasn't competing with Colborne at all.

[Fan in Exile]

Ricardodw's point on Baertschi's ability to play and contribute in the NHL as compared to Toffoli is valid. Baertschi has shown that he can play and contribute in the NHL at the same rate as Toffoli. He has areas of his game that need to be developed further. The issue is where he will best develop AND whether he should be on the team right now comparing him to other players on the roster.

It's a lot easier on a guy like Toffoli or someone in the Redwings organization who knows from the outset he's trying to break in with a championship team and he will have to serve his time in the minors than for a player to play in the NHL, establish himself as one of his team's top scorers and then yo-yo back and forth from the AHL.

No mystery why that could cause confidence issues or feelings of unfairness. Having said all that, there is an upside to Sven being in the AHL and I hope he manages to see the positives, plays well and comes back and steps into the lineup. Not convinced it was a wise move.

The problem with pointing to prospects who spend time in the minors and then have successful NHL careers as evidence that this is what is best for development is that we don't know what would have happened with the same players had they remained in the NHL. Some players undoubtedly do benefit from the AHL. Other promising players go down and never develop to their potential.

I haven't seen any indication that the AHL has helped Sven become a better player. It seems to me that with every demotion and public calling out, he has lost confidence. To me that's mismanagement.

[442scotty]

Im a big Sven fan despite his emotional fragility... but where do you put him right now?.. Looking at todays starting roster... Glencross's spot? Not for a few months yet... Bolig's? Nope... If Bouma doesn't work out his line you could pull him off and move Raymond over. That's the ONLY spot available and the likely one he will get some day but not soon.

The days when teams could afford to have a line of tough guys and a line of checkers as your 3-4 lines are coming to an end. Good teams are throwing at least three scoring lines at you and a fourth that can check and score. And all the players are gritty which cancels out the room for enforcers with no scoring ability.

This is where the flames are headed. And they are not that far off... They are hoping Bolig has a scoring touch, This is probably Grats final year and if Bouma cant find a scoring touch he too will be replaced.. Too many talented gritty guys waiting in the wings..

So having said all that... maybe there really is no room for Sven??

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

Is Joe on a 2 way contract? I thought Sven had a better camp than Joe however Joe showed last year that he can play and I expect him to step it up once he gells with his new linemates. If he struggles out of the gate, would he be the easiest person to send down and bring Sven up for another "trial"?

I think having Burke's support is helping Joe get the time he needs to develop. However, in spite of the size difference, I think Sven is probably further along, and has more potential upside in the long run.

[cannon7]

This is an opportunity for Treliving to make it clear to Baertschi (and every other player) that he is not Burke, he is not Hartley -- but he is the one who makes the final call one way or the other. If Treliving thought Baertschi had earned a roster spot, he'd be on the roster. GMs tend to stay out of their Head Coach's way when it comes to things like this, if Treliving thought Baertschi was being treated any differently, I can only assume he would step in. A GM is not going to stand idly by while a valued asset is mistreated/mishandled. I think it would benefit the organization if Treliving made it clear that this is not what is happening.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not concerning to me - don't want to be here? Can't see how coach will make you a better player? Good riddance.

No kidding. The Flames were so dire for prospects when he was drafted that we all thought this kid was going to be a franchise player but it's pretty evident his ceiling is top 6 winger and a lot that I see points to a guy that's probably not going to be a Sam Gagner type player at best that's going to bounce around the league putting up the odd solid season but never getting a big commitment from any team. He's kind of in the Jankowski range where if he works out great if not I don't really care as there are better players in the Flames system right now. He could go back to Europe for all I care and I wouldn't think it really changes the Flames future prospect list all that much.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think having Burke's support is helping Joe get the time he needs to develop. However, in spite of the size difference, I think Sven is probably further along, and has more potential upside in the long run.

First, this assumes that sending Sven to the AHL is bad for his development. There is no evidence of that. Sure, if he pouts and sulks while he's down, that won't help him, but he'll have no one but himself to blame. Backlund and Byron are two guys who have shown that you can use your time in the AHL to show management that you deserve the NHL call-up.


Also, Colborne is subject to waivers. The Leafs traded him last year because they knew he wouldn't clear. The Flames are in the same boat. Even if Colborne would be better served by being sent down, he won't be because the Flames don't want to expose him to waivers. That isn't a concern for Sven. Next year, it will be. This is the season for Sven to show everyone that he belongs in the NHL fulltime.

[dino7c]

Sven has yet to be dominant in the AHL let alone NHL

not sure why he should be handed a spot

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No kidding. The Flames were so dire for prospects when he was drafted that we all thought this kid was going to be a franchise player but it's pretty evident his ceiling is top 6 winger and a lot that I see points to a guy that's probably not going to be a Sam Gagner type player at best that's going to bounce around the league putting up the odd solid season but never getting a big commitment from any team. He's kind of in the Jankowski range where if he works out great if not I don't really care as there are better players in the Flames system right now. He could go back to Europe for all I care and I wouldn't think it really changes the Flames future prospect list all that much.

A wasted asset is a wasted asset. I for one hope that management has this right because no matter how many other guys might pan out, the organization should not be squandering the potential of a player who scored 2 ppg in the WHL and has a better point per game average than most of the players on their active roster despite having limited playing time and not being put in ideal situations.

I'm sure there are plenty of NHL GMs who would agree and would be glad to take Sven off our hands. I believe and hope the organization values him much more highly than you do.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Im a big Sven fan despite his emotional fragility... but where do you put him right now?.. Looking at todays starting roster... Glencross's spot? Not for a few months yet... Bolig's? Nope... If Bouma doesn't work out his line you could pull him off and move Raymond over. That's the ONLY spot available and the likely one he will get some day but not soon.

The days when teams could afford to have a line of tough guys and a line of checkers as your 3-4 lines are coming to an end. Good teams are throwing at least three scoring lines at you and a fourth that can check and score. And all the players are gritty which cancels out the room for enforcers with no scoring ability.

This is where the flames are headed. And they are not that far off... They are hoping Bolig has a scoring touch, This is probably Grats final year and if Bouma cant find a scoring touch he too will be replaced.. Too many talented gritty guys waiting in the wings..

So having said all that... maybe there really is no room for Sven??

In Raymond Mason's last 51 NHL games he has 9 goals and 24 pts and is -10.

Sven has 1 goal less ... same points and Sven's -2 looks like a better 200 ft game than Mason's

How is Raymond significantly better than Sven?

In the battle of the Small non-gritty guys Hudler, Gaudreau, Brodie and pick one more .


The GM(s) picked Raymond..... Is that a bad signing.?. It would seem that they were not confident that Gaudreau would be NHL ready when they signed Raymond.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

A wasted asset is a wasted asset. I for one hope that management has this right because no matter how many other guys might pan out, the organization should not be squandering the potential of a player who scored 2 ppg in the WHL and has a better point per game average than most of the players on their active roster despite having limited playing time and not being put in ideal situations.

I'm sure there are plenty of NHL GMs who would agree and would be glad to take Sven off our hands. I believe and hope the organization values him much more highly than you do.

Look at the players drafted before and after him. Would Ryan Murphy be on the Flames roster? Joel Armia can't crack the Sabres lineup so what makes you think he would make the Flames? Mark McNeill can't crack a Hawks lineup that could use a center. It's not like that class has established itself with regular NHL players as chances are no matter who they pick they are still playing in the AHL. Even if he pans out to a 2nd line winger I would call that a success and right now that looks to be where he may end up if he can ever get his head on straight. If Sven turns out to be a wasted first round pick it's going to be all on him and nothing to do with the Flames. The Flames made the right pick that day but Baertschi needs to fulfill his end of the bargain and that is to advance from a top junior player to pro to which he's simply struggled.

[wretched34]

Opening Roster is:
Glencross-Monahan-Hudler
Raymond-Backlund-Bouma
Johnny-Colborne-Byron
Bollig-Stajan-McGrattan.

If Sven keeps his head up, and doesn't get down on himself, plays strong for a few games in Addy, I can easily see him being back by the end of the month, and the roster looking more like:

Johnny-Monahan-Hudler
Sven-Backlund-Raymond
Glencross-Stajan-Bouma/Colborne
Boillig-Bouma/Colborne-McGrattan

Bouma does not belong on the second line, if they want him on the wing, it should be third line, however, I prefer Colborne on the wing, over Center, so the two should swap.
Raymond can play either wing, so to make room on the left side for Sven, he slides to the right on the #2 line.
Glencross is the biggest of the 3 offensive LW's, so would be better suited to a grittier yet still offensive 3rd line, with Stajan and Colborne.

In the battle of small guys, I think Byron will be the odd man out, however, you waive Seto, and Byron is your 13th/14th forward with Jones.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sven has yet to be dominant in the AHL let alone NHL

not sure why he should be handed a spot

Monahan 34 pts in 74 NHL games ... .46 ppg not quite as dominate as Baertschi's .47 ppg.

Baertschi didn't come close to being dominated 5on5 as Monahan's -20 would indicate.

I sure as heck don't want Monahan sent down to dominate the AHL!!

Monahan was clearly a better player playing with Baertschi at the start of last year. Had Monahan started the year with Colborne on his wing he might have got sent to the OHL after 9 games.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Monahan 34 pts in 74 NHL games ... .46 ppg not quite as dominate as Baertschi's .47 ppg.

Baertschi didn't come close to being dominated 5on5 as Monahan's -20 would indicate.

I sure as heck don't want Monahan sent down to dominate the AHL!!

Monahan was clearly a better player playing with Baertschi at the start of last year. Had Monahan started the year with Colborne on his wing he might have got sent to the OHL after 9 games.

Three things:

Monahan without the puck >>>> Baertschi without the puck

Monahan's attitude >>> Baertschi's attitude

Left wing depth >>>>>>>> Centre depth



If Baertschi was a centre and Monahan a LW, it is quite possible that Baertschi would have been in the NHL full time last season.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Three things:

Monahan without the puck >>>> Baertschi without the puck

Monahan's attitude >>> Baertschi's attitude

Left wing depth >>>>>>>> Centre depth



If Baertschi was a centre and Monahan a LW, it is quite possible that Baertschi would have been in the NHL full time last season.

After the comments made by management, that they feel Baertschi is right on the cusp of being an everyday NHLer, and a pretty solid training camp/pre-season, I'm leaning more towards this assignment to Addy as a test to his attitude. Sven has a pretty solid game, and likely would benefit more rounding it out in the NHL now, but his attitude is a big concern in my eyes. It seems every time there is a bump in the road for him, he has a lot of trouble getting over it. He's young, there are going to be bumps in the road, the last thing an NHL team wants, is a kid moping around after a 2 or 3 game scoreless streak. They need to know that he's got his head screwed on straight now, and is willing to work through adversity, and stay positive to push forward.

[BigFlameDog]

Hartley mentioned this morning that all the parties...coaches, Connie, scouts, Treliving etc; were handing in daily report cards to be tallied and accounted, grade from 1-7.

This is how the cuts/assignments were decided with any ties going to Hartley...meaning he made the final call. I have to think those are difficult decisions and if push comes to shove he is going to keep the vet he knows over a rookie. He is trying to keep his job at the end of the day.

I have to think the waiver wire comes into play as well....if there is a tie, the guy that doesn't have to pass will be sent down.

He also said he talks to Huska every 2-3 days to keep his finger on the pulse of the prospects. Got to think that with experience comes trust and when Hartley picks up the phone and Huska says he trusts player X, he will get the call.

Sven needs to go down and keep doing what he is doing and he will be back...keep doing what he is doing and his trips down will lessen or stop.