Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd1

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Gaudreau over Bennett
Age was not considered as we are polling best prospect now, not potential.

It's that way of thinking that had Knight voted higher than Poirier and Klimchuk last year.

I'm choosing to assign value to these prospects in the same way value is assigned in trades.

No team in the league would have traded Emile Poirier last year to acquire Corban Knight, and while I believe it is close, I don't think many teams would trade Sam Bennett for John Gaudreau this year.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I am voting based on "Would I trade player A for player B?"

Seems silly to ignore potential when we're talking about *prospects*, the very definition of the word requires one to talk about potential.

[Hackey]

If were going based on value then I think Bennett is by far number 1.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I am voting based on "Would I trade player A for player B?"

Seems silly to ignore potential when we're talking about *prospects*, the very definition of the word requires one to talk about potential.

Exactly.

If we were only voting on who was most NHL ready, Bennett would be ranked about 7th-8th.

May as well just list the guys from oldest to youngest if that's the reasoning.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Exactly.

If we were only voting on who was most NHL ready, Bennett would be ranked about 7th-8th.

May as well just list the guys from oldest to youngest if that's the reasoning.

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, some people don't think Bennett is going to be a top line player? Personally, I think Bennett tops out as a Doug Gilmour type, and he was a great #2 center. I see Gaudreau as a top line winger though, so I think he's the better prospect. Doesn't mean Bennett is a bad player, just means that I think Gaudreau is better. Also, I have to see Bennett play some hockey as a Flames prospect to proclaim him as a top player in the system. His development is what will make him a top prospect, not his draft position.

This is also why Baertschi is down my personal list. Baertschi has struggled with consistency since turning pro. There was a post earlier that showed the success he had with Monahan, reasoning that Baertschi should be at or near the top of the rankings, because of his scoring exploits. If Baertschi was all that, he would have ripped up the AHL and not been playing second or third fiddle to the likes of Reinhart and Granlund, who Henry Fool ironically assured us was a poor prospect from his time in Finland. Player development is what makes a prospect a player. The prospects that continue to develop go up the rankings. Those who struggle fall.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I'd skip 3 as well, Baertschi will be the clear favorite for #3.

He shouldn't be the clear favourite. It was Granlund's first year pro in NA last year and he out-performed Sven pretty handily. Sven is about 7 month younger but it was his second year Pro in NA.

Granlund was performing at a near 0.5 goal per game clip in the AHL. He was playing well in the NHL before he got hurt.

Ortio should be given heavy consideration as well. He was one of the best goalies in the AHL last season as a 22 year old. That's quite impressive.

Right now Sven is at best #5 on my list.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by New Era

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, some people don't think Bennett is going to be a top line player? Personally, I think Bennett tops out as a Doug Gilmour type, and he was a great #2 center. I see Gaudreau as a top line winger though, so I think he's the better prospect. Doesn't mean Bennett is a bad player, just means that I think Gaudreau is better. Also, I have to see Bennett play some hockey as a Flames prospect to proclaim him as a top player in the system. His development is what will make him a top prospect, not his draft position.

No one was arguing that picking Gaudreau is wrong, because obviously he is very talented, but if you picked him just based on his NHL readiness I think that is quite silly.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by New Era

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, some people don't think Bennett is going to be a top line player?

I wouldn't be against anyone believing that, and believing that Gaudreau tops out as a better player.

I only disagree when someone votes Gaudreau as being more valuable because he's so much better today. Bennett is 3 years younger, so that'd be a poor way to evaluate prospects.

[The Fonz]

double post

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by New Era

Personally, I think Bennett tops out as a Doug Gilmour type, and he was a great #2 center.

Doug Gilmour was a point per game player over 1400 NHL games and had three seasons of 100+ points. Even in the live-puck era, he was a bonafide star #1 center.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by New Era

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, some people don't think Bennett is going to be a top line player? Personally, I think Bennett tops out as a Doug Gilmour type, and he was a great #2 center. I see Gaudreau as a top line winger though, so I think he's the better prospect. Doesn't mean Bennett is a bad player, just means that I think Gaudreau is better. Also, I have to see Bennett play some hockey as a Flames prospect to proclaim him as a top player in the system. His development is what will make him a top prospect, not his draft position.

This is also why Baertschi is down my personal list. Baertschi has struggled with consistency since turning pro. There was a post earlier that showed the success he had with Monahan, reasoning that Baertschi should be at or near the top of the rankings, because of his scoring exploits. If Baertschi was all that, he would have ripped up the AHL and not been playing second or third fiddle to the likes of Reinhart and Granlund, who Henry Fool ironically assured us was a poor prospect from his time in Finland. Player development is what makes a prospect a player. The prospects that continue to develop go up the rankings. Those who struggle fall.

I don't think I ever called Granlund a "poor prospect" and I don't understand what would be "ironic" about it if I did. I certainly didn't "assure" anyone of anything. Why include me in your post at all?

What I did was try to keep people up to date about him when he was in Finland without sounding like a Finnish homer. My read on him hasn't changed that much. It's just that some prospects keep progressing nicely, some don't, and what he showed in Finland was okay but nothing to get hyped about.

[Monahan23]

I'm to tired to defend Sven and to tired to say the obvious that Gilmour was one of the best players in the league. Le sigh

[mile]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I'd skip 3 as well, Baertschi will be the clear favorite for #3.

I think I'd have Poirier ranked ahead of him for the #3 spot - Baertschi might be the favorite for #3 but I don't think he is an overwhelming favorite.

[SportsJunky]

Bennett. To me, he is a can't miss star in the league. Johnny is a possible miss still in my eyes.
Love em both though.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I'd skip 3 as well, Baertschi will be the clear favorite for #3.

Not for me. I think you can easily argue that guys like Granlund and Poirier have passed him. Granlund outperformed him in the same league last year. I won't be voting for Sven at #3.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by New Era

Personally, I think Bennett tops out as a Doug Gilmour type, and he was a great #2 center.

Gilmour was a #2 centre on the best team in the league. He was #1 for the Leafs and came close to the cup finals while scoring 8th in the league. If Bennett or Gadreau get close to that good I'll be over the moon. Saying Gilmour was a second line player is like saying Malkin is a second line player because he plays behind Crosby.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Fire

He shouldn't be the clear favourite. It was Granlund's first year pro in NA last year and he out-performed Sven pretty handily. Sven is about 7 month younger but it was his second year Pro in NA.

Granlund was performing at a near 0.5 goal per game clip in the AHL. He was playing well in the NHL before he got hurt.

Ortio should be given heavy consideration as well. He was one of the best goalies in the AHL last season as a 22 year old. That's quite impressive.

Right now Sven is at best #5 on my list.

I agree with your points but you got that backwards, Granlund is 7 months younger.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not for me. I think you can easily argue that guys like Granlund and Poirier have passed him. Granlund outperformed him in the same league last year. I won't be voting for Sven at #3.

I think organizationally, Gaudreau and Bennett are the only guys right now that are viewed to have higher ceilings than Baertschi. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I"m wrong in thinking consistent effort in all three zones makes Sven Baertschi a front line NHL forward.

[The Fonz]

#3 is going to take a lot of thinking.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Gilmour was a #2 centre on the best team in the league. He was #1 for the Leafs and came close to the cup finals while scoring 8th in the league. If Bennett or Gadreau get close to that good I'll be over the moon. Saying Gilmour was a second line player is like saying Malkin is a second line player because he plays behind Crosby.

Gilmour was a great player. The Flames took a real hit when Risebrough gave him away for nothing. But outside of a couple of monster years in Toronto he was a 2nd line center. He was a 2nd line center in St. Louis, he was a 2nd line center in Calgary, and he was a 2nd line center, or lower, in the other cities he finished his career in. If Bennett has a career as good as Gilmour's we will all be exceptionally happy. It is far from an insult to suggest that Bennett has Gilmour upside.