[Signing] Canucks sign Vrbata (2yrs, $5mil AAV, limited NTC)

[Erick Estrada]

So their best overall forward by far and perennial 25 goal scorer Kesler has been replaced by a 33 year old winger that scores 20 goals every second season and all of a sudden the lowest scoring team has been cured of all it's issues? This thread is laughable as I don't think any of you have actually watched the Canucks and how much Kesler brought to that team. Garrison wasn't lights out but he was at least solid and where have they replaced him? Miller isn't as good as Luongo. Sorry guys but once your kool aid induced hangover wears off you will see that this roster is amongst the worst in the NHL.

[Vinny01]

The Canucks added some youth that will play right away in Vey and Sbisa. Initially I thought Bonino was 22-24 but he is 26 so still young but not a real young player with significantly more upside. I think he has basically topped out. I am not really sure what Vey is and have no idea if that was a good swap. Losing Garisson is not a big deal IMO but he did have a bomb from the point and was respectable in his own end. Adding Miller is okay but he is going to have to be Vezina calibre to get this team to respectability.


When the top line is made up of 33/34 year olds I don't see that team making the playoffs in the west. The team traded their heart and soul ( as Canucks fans have told me over the years) in Kesler. I don't see how they really got any better. They got younger but not really any better. I think they try this win now thing for 2-3 years before going full rebuild. In that time Horvat, Shinkaurak, Virtanen will all be 21-22 soya be it won't be a long painful stat st the bottom but they have 2-3 years of 9-10 place finishes ahead

[Nehkara]

I've always really like Vrbata. This makes the Canucks better.

Guess I can't like Radim for a few years.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by bluck

They are going the same route as we did when we tried to add Tanguay and Bouwmeester to an aging core.

Huh? When we added Tanguay the first time around Iginla wasn't even 30 and Tanguay was 28. When we added Bouwmeester, Bouw was 26 and was considered a franchise defenseman. You make that signing even if it was the first year of the rebuild. Boston managed to rebuild with a 30 year old Chara.

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

The Canucks remind me of the Flames of 5 or 6 years ago.

Originally Posted by Mike F

So their plan is to sign veterans to bridge the gap until their mediocre prospects are ready to break into dribble into the NHL.

That sounds like the Flames of 09/10.

I hear this a lot from Flames fans but there's really no comparison. The problem with the Flames 3-6 years ago wasn't because the team attempted to supplement an aging core. The problem was that the team did so by trading away assets and not getting any futures in return. The Flames kept getting older in every trade they made. The Flames traded their best trade chip (Phaneuf) for zero futures. The Flames actually traded away the two youngest players in that trade and received no draft pick back. The team traded a first round pick for Jokinen and again traded away younger roster players in the trade. When Jokinen was a pending UFA they packaged Prust to acquire a pending UFA and a 31/32 year old Kotalik. To get rid of Kotalik, the team traded Regehr and actually threw in a 2nd round pick (sure maybe the 2nd was for Byron but Regehr was worth more than Butler). The Flames wanted to dump Regehr's salary and did so because they wanted to re-sign Tanguay and go after Richards. This is after having missed the playoffs the past two years. Feaster still thought they were one player away from being a playoff team. The Flames end up getting only 3 years of service from Butler and 73 games worth from Byron. Meanwhile ,Buffalo ended up with three 2nds due to that trade. The same year, the Flames traded for Cammalleri and threw in what turned out to be the #36 pick in a deep draft. And of course Jokinen was allowed to leave via UFA for nothing after a 61 point season, Cammy was allowed to leave via UFA again even in a rebuilding year.

The Canucks, on the other hand, have been getting younger for the most part. Two summers ago, the Canucks started to retool. They moved Schneider for a top 10 pick. This past trade deadline they didn't move any draft picks in hopes of making the playoffs and actually moved one of their UFAs for a 5th round pick. The apparent stumbling block to trading Kesler to the Penguins was the inclusion of Derrick Pouliot. This summer Benning moved Kesler and made sure he got a first round pick in return. They traded Garrison for a 2nd round pick that they used in a trade for a 23 year old player who looks ready for the NHL (I suppose you can compare this to the Regehr trade, but Benning was working off of Garrison's two team list while Feaster negotiated what he thought was the best deal then went to Regehr).

Maybe the Canucks get nothing out of their draft picks and only one year of service from Matthias, but the Canucks didn't get older when they traded Kesler and Schneider. Compare the last two drafts. The Flames have one more 2nd round pick and one more 7th round pick than the Canucks. Meanwhile, the Canucks have one more 4th round pick and one more 5th. And the only reason the Flames have one more 2nd round pick than the Canucks is because we traded down. It's why I hated Feaster's tenure so much. He had was two trade deadlines and two drafts two slow to rebuild this team.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So their best overall forward by far and perennial 25 goal scorer Kesler has been replaced by a 33 year old winger that scores 20 goals every second season and all of a sudden the lowest scoring team has been cured of all it's issues?

Who is claiming they have cured all it's issues? Most people, if not all, have them out of the play-offs and in that horrible no man's land of not bottom 3 and not a play-off team.

This thread is laughable as I don't think any of you have actually watched the Canucks and how much Kesler brought to that team. Garrison wasn't lights out but he was at least solid and where have they replaced him? Miller isn't as good as Luongo. Sorry guys but once your kool aid induced hangover wears off you will see that this roster is amongst the worst in the NHL.

Kesler did not bring all that much to that team, especially not last season. Garrison was a disaster last year and far from solid. Sbisa brings as much as he did. Miller is fairly close to Luongo and an upgrade from Lack/Markstrom.

They won't be good next year but they are definitely a step up from the bottom 5/6 teams in the league.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So their best overall forward by far and perennial 25 goal scorer Kesler has been replaced by a 33 year old winger that scores 20 goals every second season and all of a sudden the lowest scoring team has been cured of all it's issues? This thread is laughable as I don't think any of you have actually watched the Canucks and how much Kesler brought to that team. Garrison wasn't lights out but he was at least solid and where have they replaced him? Miller isn't as good as Luongo. Sorry guys but once your kool aid induced hangover wears off you will see that this roster is amongst the worst in the NHL.

I'm only defending him because Vrbata is a player I have always really liked... and there is basis for defending him. What you said there is not really correct.

Vrbata has goal totals in the last 5 seasons of:

20
12
35
19
24

But since the 12 goal year he only played 35 games due to the lockout, it's better to go by goals per game. Vrbata averages 0.3125 goals per game over the last 5 seasons.

That amounts to 25 goals per 82 games over the last 5 seasons.

His career average is 22 goals per 82 games.

For the purposes of completeness:

Points per 82 games over the last 5 seasons = 54

Points per 82 games over his career = 48

Given that Kesler hasn't played very well over the past few seasons, as much as it pains me to say it, it wouldn't surprise me if Vrbata is a net gain for them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Given that Kesler hasn't played very well over the past few seasons, as much as it pains me to say it, it wouldn't surprise me if Vrbata is a net gain for them.

Does he take defensive zone faceoffs? Will he been their main penalty killing forward? I feel I'm in an alternate universe where Vrbata is an elite player. He's not and while he will pick up some goals playing wing with the Sedins he's not going to be able to replace what Kesler brought to the table.

If the Flames would have signed Vrbata we would have all been happy but honestly how many of us would have penciled the Flames in for significant improvement in the standings if he was added? He's a nice complementary piece but not a difference maker at this stage of his career.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does he take defensive zone faceoffs? Will he been their main penalty killing forward? I feel I'm in an alternate universe where Vrbata is an elite player. He's not and while he will pick up some goals playing wing with the Sedins he's not going to be able to replace what Kesler brought to the table.

If the Flames would have signed Vrbata we would have all been happy but honestly how many of us would have penciled the Flames in for significant improvement in the standings if he was added? He's a nice complementary piece but not a difference maker at this stage of his career.

Are people pencilling the Canucks in for a significant improvement in the standings?

It seems like you are arguing against yourself here as nobody is saying that Vrbata is elite, nobody is saying the Canucks are going to in for a significant improvement in the standings and nobdoy has said they are curing their ills.

[driveway]

I've said they're going to improve significantly in the standings. And I stand by my assessment. I don't think they're going to go anywhere in the playoffs, but I think they're a hell of a lot closer to the playoffs than they are to us at the end of the season.

[Enoch Root]

I approve of the signing for a very simple reason - it delays the (inevitable) rebuild by 2 years.

The Sedins, Burrows, Bieksa, Vrbata and Miller are all 33-34 and all of them are signed through next season (some through the following season).

They showed pretty clearly this year that the depth is not there to compete. And with Kesler gone, they are no where near competing. Their C depth cannot even begin to compete in the west.

They should have made the move this year, ahead of a generational draft.

Instead, they signed Miller and Vrbata (and kept the core), ensuring that they will finish 9-10 this year and 9-10 next year. And in two years, none of them will be worth anything.

It's the perfect scenario if you're a Flames fan

[19Yzerman19]

Vrbata likely completely replaces Kesler's production for the exact same cap hit. He doesn't replace the PK minutes or overall ice time, but it's not a huge downgrade as a Vrbata - Sedins line will be well in the black. Their problem continues to be center depth; they need a passable 2C to have much of a shot of doing anything.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Vrbata likely completely replaces Kesler's production for the exact same cap hit. He doesn't replace the PK minutes or overall ice time, but it's not a huge downgrade as a Vrbata - Sedins line will be well in the black. Their problem continues to be center depth; they need a passable 2C to have much of a shot of doing anything.

He may replace the offensive production, but there is still the small matter of a 2nd line and playing against other teams' top players.

The Nucks are looking like a one line team this year.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by irrevocable

I think you've nailed it cowtown75. The Sedins aren't the same as they used to be.. they can no longer drive the offense all on their own. I don't think they'll see playoff light for a few seasons.

the Sedins have continued to drive play at an elite rate the last few seasons, that didn't change last year even with Tortorella playing them in a more defensive role

last year they had a CF of 58%, 2012/13 it was 62%, 2011/12 it was 60%, 2010/2011 it was 57%

last year's numbers put them in the top 20 forwards in the league, most of which outside the Sedins, Thornton, and Bergeron all come from the Blackhawks and Kings

the only thing that really dropped about their play last year was the shooting %, especially on the power play

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So their best overall forward by far and perennial 25 goal scorer Kesler has been replaced by a 33 year old winger that scores 20 goals every second season and all of a sudden the lowest scoring team has been cured of all it's issues? This thread is laughable as I don't think any of you have actually watched the Canucks and how much Kesler brought to that team. Garrison wasn't lights out but he was at least solid and where have they replaced him? Miller isn't as good as Luongo. Sorry guys but once your kool aid induced hangover wears off you will see that this roster is amongst the worst in the NHL.

Technically, I think Bonino is the guy who replaces Kesler. Vrbata is the one who replaces Santorelli? I think the Canucks are betting on last year being a poor season with a coach who had a system that didn't fit the players. Reading Benning's comments after acquiring Bonino and Vrbata, they are banking on increasing their scoring by improving the PP. Whether the Canucks have a roster that is amongst the worst in the NHL depends on whether the Sedins are 50 point players or 70+ point players. If it's the former then ya the Canucks are screwed. As for Garrison, the Canucks don't really need him. What they need is Edler to bounce back somewhat because he's going to play 20+ minutes no matter how much he sucks. If Edler is crap the Canucks defense will be crap because nobody can play with that guy.

[19Yzerman19]

I think they're still trying to sign Santorelli?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He may replace the offensive production, but there is still the small matter of a 2nd line and playing against other teams' top players. The Nucks are looking like a one line team this year.

I don't really see an issue with the Canucks being able to put out an effective counter to the other teams' best players, they have some fairly strong defensive forwards on that roster.

The issue is, as you say, where the hell the goals are going to come from outside of that top line. If you shut down the Sedins and score two goals you probably win the game. And given that the Sedins - good possession guys or not - are not the productive weapons they were, that's not that tall an order anymore. diane phaneuf is right, but you can't argue that they're still the same guys as they've been when Daniel goes 26 games without scoring.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

the Sedins have continued to drive play at an elite rate the last few seasons, that didn't change last year even with Tortorella playing them in a more defensive role

last year they had a CF of 58%, 2012/13 it was 62%, 2011/12 it was 60%, 2010/2011 it was 57%

last year's numbers put them in the top 20 forwards in the league, most of which outside the Sedins, Thornton, and Bergeron all come from the Blackhawks and Kings

the only thing that really dropped about their play last year was the shooting %, especially on the power play

That drop in shooting percentage could be luck (at which point they should be expected to bounce back this season) or it could be a reflection that they are just a little bit slower and just a little bit less able to get to that open spot for a quality chance (same number of chances, but the quality and timing of those chances just fades a bit, resulting in less finish).

Something that sometimes happens to players in their mid-thirties.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FAN

Technically, I think Bonino is the guy who replaces Kesler. Vrbata is the one who replaces Santorelli? I think the Canucks are betting on last year being a poor season with a coach who had a system that didn't fit the players. Reading Benning's comments after acquiring Bonino and Vrbata, they are banking on increasing their scoring by improving the PP. Whether the Canucks have a roster that is amongst the worst in the NHL depends on whether the Sedins are 50 point players or 70+ point players. If it's the former then ya the Canucks are screwed. As for Garrison, the Canucks don't really need him. What they need is Edler to bounce back somewhat because he's going to play 20+ minutes no matter how much he sucks. If Edler is crap the Canucks defense will be crap because nobody can play with that guy.

'Technically' being the key word there

[automaton 3]

I like Vrbata, I think this was a good signing.

I think the coaching change alone is going to make the Canucks better next year.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Keep in mind, Vrbata is a streaky, streaky scorer, much like Stempniak. And as much as I hate Kesler, he still was a decent player. But Vrbata won't be able to replace Kesler's scoring. The Sedin's are on the decline. I see a 9th/10th place team in the Canucks, so I'm good with that.

[Jordan!]

Welp, at least we've got Martin Erat? ugh