Trudeau draws the line for the Liberals on "pro-choice"

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Except that what Trudeau is saying is pretty much empty BS. The United States doesn't care one whit about Canada's laws or programs. The environmental policy would be coming from Washington, not Ottawa. And that's really only if you are naive enough to believe this is about anything other than lobbying and political pressure.

First, calling it BS and calling it poor support for the pipeline and giving fuel to pipeline opponents, which CC claimed, are different thing.

That said, my understanding of the politics is that Obama is dragging his feet because his liberal base, which places a premium on environmental protection, sees the pipeline as an environmental threat, due to the inherent threat of oil pipelines and the possibility that it would increase oilsands production, which the liberal left see as an environmental catastrophe.

If that's true, then the statement that the Harper gov't better managing the perception of the oilsands and convincing environmentalists that they cared about the environment and would take all necessary steps to protect it would have alleviated environmentalists concerns to some degree, lessening the pressure on Obama, is logically sound and can't be flippantly dismissed as empty BS

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Mike F

First, calling it BS and calling it poor support for the pipeline and giving fuel to pipeline opponents, which CC claimed, are different thing.

That said, my understanding of the politics is that Obama is dragging his feet because his liberal base, which places a premium on environmental protection, sees the pipeline as an environmental threat, due to the inherent threat of oil pipelines and the possibility that it would increase oilsands production, which the liberal left see as an environmental catastrophe.

If that's true, then the statement that the Harper gov't better managing the perception of the oilsands and convincing environmentalists that they cared about the environment and would take all necessary steps to protect it would have alleviated environmentalists concerns to some degree, lessening the pressure on Obama, is logically sound and can't be flippantly dismissed as empty BS

This has nothing to do about how dirty the oil sands are perceived to be and how unsafe pipelines are.
Even if the oil sands were the cleanest oil in the world and pipelines were 100% safe, certain elements in the USA would be against Keystone. Unfortunately those elements seem to be driving the bus for Obama.

Their sole objective is to reduce the amount of oil that the USA consumes.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm curious what exactly has made Harper "fit to run the country," or any politician for that matter? Trudeau has won his riding twice and his party's leadership. By most criteria, that's "fit to run the country." What exactly had Harper accomplished prior to his candidacy, outside of being a far-right policy hack?

Answer me this honestly. If his name was Justin Brown do you think he would have won his riding twice and his party's leadership? Do you think he's attained all this on merit alone or does his last name play a big role. We all know the answer don't we? At least Harper isn't riding anyone's coattails.

How did it work out for the US electing Bush Jr another guy that road his father's coattails and should never had been a country leader.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Rerun

This has nothing to do about how dirty the oil sands are perceived to be and how unsafe pipelines are.
Even if the oil sands were the cleanest oil in the world and pipelines were 100% safe, certain elements in the USA would be against Keystone. Unfortunately those elements seem to be driving the bus for Obama.

Their sole objective is to reduce the amount of oil that the USA consumes.

You don't think that if the oil sands were the cleanest oil in the world and pipelines were 100% safe it wouldn't be a significantly easier sell for Obama politically?

That's awfully convenient for you to believe.

If the far left who are staunch environmentalists were "driving the bus for Obama" he wouldn't have come out with such strong support of natural gas exploration despite the environmental problems associated with fracking, which the far left deplore.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Rerun

By posting what you did..




the implication is that people on this board don't seem to care about this issue since they aren't posting about...

Threads that don't interest people quickly die due to lack of posts. Most of the people posting in Supreme Court thread are lawyers and the fervent anti-Harperists, expressing their outrage at Harper's behaviour. ...

You assume that this forum is representative of all Canadian voters. I think that is a very dubious assumption.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Makarov

You assume that this forum is representative of all Canadian voters. I think that is a very dubious assumption.

You are probably right. Statistically this board probably has a way higher proportion of Liberal/Trudeau supporters than exist in real life... which just goes to show, given the limited play it has gotten on this board, how really unimportant the SC squabble is to most Canadians.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Answer me this honestly. If his name was Justin Brown do you think he would have won his riding twice and his party's leadership? Do you think he's attained all this on merit alone or does his last name play a big role. We all know the answer don't we? At least Harper isn't riding anyone's coattails.

How did it work out for the US electing Bush Jr another guy that road his father's coattails and should never had been a country leader.

Do we?

If you're not smart enough to distinguish a politician's name from their platform, then that's on you, but it isn't wise to project that on to the voting population. Did Barb Higgins win the Calgary election? No, because people aren't generally dumb enough to vote someone in on name alone.

Of course his last name plays a role, but he wouldn't be where he is if he wasn't a good politician and a strong leader. Did Harper deserve to lead the opposition anymore than Trudeau does? Absolutely not, in no way what-so-ever.

It will never cease to amaze me the rate at which some people go back to the least intellectual wells possible in their critique of some politicians. It's the problem with democracy (a good problem, but a problem), every average Joe gets a vote, regardless of their own intellectual ability.

His hair! His name! So young!
We get it. Why is it that Liberals back what he's saying, but some of the more ignorant can only criticise the visuals?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Mike F

If the far left who are staunch environmentalists were "driving the bus for Obama" he wouldn't have come out with such strong support of natural gas exploration despite the environmental problems associated with fracking, which the far left deplore.

1. Natural Gas is a lot cleaner than oil

2. Fracking for Natural Gas in the USA is a Made in America solution to America's energy problem. Environmentalists will take an increased dependency on NG 10 times out of 10, as opposed to importing more oil or burning more coal.

3. Environmentally there isn't a problem with most fracking and the problems that do occur in a few isolated cases are limited to a small area.

4. Nobody in the rest of the world cares that America might be polluting their well water in a few isolated cases. It doesn't affect them.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Rerun

You are probably right. Statistically this board probably has a way higher proportion of Liberal/Trudeau supporters than exist in real life... which just goes to show, given the limited play it has gotten on this board, how really unimportant the SC squabble is to most Canadians.

Seriously?

This message board that is predominantly straight, white, male, Albertan...

If he's got that demographic wrapped up, and the rest of the "liberals", he might be the PM for the next 40 years.

And ignoring the SC squabble is somehow proof of a Liberal bent here? How does that work?

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Rerun

You are probably right. Statistically this board probably has a way higher proportion of Liberal/Trudeau supporters than exist in real life... which just goes to show, given the limited play it has gotten on this board, how really unimportant the SC squabble is to most Canadians.

You know Rerun, I'm curious to get your take on the SC "squabble". Before you answer, just remember that this is the highest court in the land, a Canadian institution. Also remember that at no time EVER in the history of the Candian Federation has this situation occurred.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Rerun

You are probably right. Statistically this board probably has a way higher proportion of Liberal/Trudeau supporters than exist in real life... which just goes to show, given the limited play it has gotten on this board, how really unimportant the SC squabble is to most Canadians.

Re: Supreme court item, could be...also could be not. This goes for left and right on this board, but I think sometimes issues are given "limited play" because most supporters seem to understand it may not have been so smart, can't really defend it, etc...so they tend to, well, just avoid the thread altogether. If you avoid something that you are embarrassed about, and offer not much of any defense to it, and it quietly disappears....(and this goes for both left and right).

And also, this board is definitely not left tilted.

[strombad]

How in the world would you get a left tilt from this place?

A message board for an Albertan sports team in the heart of oil country, and you think it leans left?

I'm ridiculously left, which gives me a pretty good view of the table, and I find myself liking the people near the center because so few go a whole lot closer to me than that.

If this place leans left, then you've put the fear of god into me. I wouldn't even want to know what the right looks like, because apparently I've never seen it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by strombad

How in the world would you get a left tilt from this place?

A message board for an Albertan sports team in the heart of oil country, and you think it leans left?

I'm ridiculously left, which gives me a pretty good view of the table, and I find myself liking the people near the center because so few go a whole lot closer to me than that.

If this place leans left, then you've put the fear of god into me. I wouldn't even want to know what the right looks like, because apparently I've never seen it.

That's just Rerun being Rerun.