Racism vs. Oversensitivity

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If racial prejudice is the same thing as institutional racism and racial genocide, then it is the person who wrote that explanation in the article who is an idiot.

What? Do you usually just make up false claims to argue about when you figure out you don't even know what you're saying? Because that is the EXACT opposite of what I said:

Originally Posted by strombad

Racial Prejudice, Institutional racism, racial genocide... these are all different things, but they are all Racism. When you refer to racism, you refer to all of them, and when you're referring to any of them you're referring to Racism, that's why they aren't different.

You supported the argument that Racism and Racial Prejudice were different:

Originally Posted by Rathji

... distinguishing between racism and racial prejudice as different things.

This ... is likely an important distinction.

They aren't, they are the same. You are wrong. Racial Prejudice, Institutional Racism, and Genocide are all different, but they are also all Racism. They are all simply different facets of racism. The end. Glad we cleared that up for you.

[ae118]

I'm not touching the arguments in this thread with a 10-foot pole, but I sincerely think you guys need a Venn diagram.


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[PIMking]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

How fortunate we are as Canadians to have the time and desire to seriously pre–occupy ourselves with thoughts like this!

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by strombad

What? Do you usually just make up false claims to argue about when you figure out you don't even know what you're saying? Because that is the EXACT opposite of what I said:


You supported the argument that Racism and Racial Prejudice were different:

They aren't, they are the same. You are wrong. Racial Prejudice, Institutional Racism, and Genocide are all different, but they are also all Racism. They are all simply different facets of racism. The end. Glad we cleared that up for you.

I just got sick of arguing with you over something that you won't ever understand. You can think what you want.

The comment of the Venn diagram was very apt.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I just got sick of arguing with you over something that you won't ever understand. You can think what you want.

The comment of the Venn diagram was very apt.

It's cool that you don't know what you're talking about, that's fine, but don't come in here and pretend like you do while shifting the focus and avoiding explanation when ever someone makes a simple and direct criticism of your statements. If you don't understand your own position, you can't expect others to.

Can we just agree, you said racism and racial prejudice are different, they aren't. It's super simple. If you can't understand it, then don't bother reading academic papers, those won't be for you.

I'm always really pleased when someone who doesn't understand simple concepts claims to not care enough to explain themselves or that others wouldn't understand. It's a strong indicator that they have a very low level grasp of their position and have run out of ways to cover that fact.

After all:

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
- Albert Einstein

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by strombad

It's cool that you don't know what you're talking about, that's fine, but don't come in here and pretend like you do while shifting the focus and avoiding explanation when ever someone makes a simple and direct criticism of your statements. If you don't understand your own position, you can't expect others to.

Can we just agree, you said racism and racial prejudice are different, they aren't. It's super simple. If you can't understand it, then don't bother reading academic papers, those won't be for you.

I'm always really pleased when someone who doesn't understand simple concepts claims to not care enough to explain themselves or that others wouldn't understand. It's a strong indicator that they have a very low level grasp of their position and have run out of ways to cover that fact.

After all:

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
- Albert Einstein

This is painful.

I understood what the guy was saying. I thought it was, in fact, super simple.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This is painful.



I understood what the guy was saying. I thought it was, in fact, super simple.

Enlighten us.

I thought I understood it as well, but according to him I did not at any point, and was not capable of understanding it.

I'm more than happy to hear an explanation that my less-than-capable mind can grasp.

[RougeUnderoos]

I think this has run its course.

[strombad]

Just curious is all.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by strombad

Enlighten us.

I thought I understood it as well, but according to him I did not at any point, and was not capable of understanding it.

I'm more than happy to hear an explanation that my less-than-capable mind can grasp.

Your penis is a part of you. Does that make you a penis?

I guess by your posts in this thread, the answer is pretty clear.

[strombad]

Oh good, penis jokes.

Clearly hitting the peak of intellectual discourse. Get back to me when you're above repeating the different versions of the same flawed example and calling names.

And yeah, if you're referring to part of me, you're referring to me. Pretty simple.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

So let me get this straight. "Bobby" is a victim of systematic racism because he chooses to hangout with friends and stick to his roots rather than pursue an education?

Your post is filled with assumptions. So in order to rectify the situation, what do you propose?

Bobby also may not have the option of pursuing an education, given that his parents likely were unable to save money for him to get a higher education, since black men and women make considerably less than their white counterparts. Also given that Bobby attended a school with lower funding, his teachers were unable to give him a proper education, so Bobby is unlikely to qualify for scholarships that would allow him to get assistance from scholarships.

So Bobby may or may not be able to get a job directly out of high school, making minimum wage (which is a joke in the US as it is, no one can survive on $7.25/hour), and will spend the next sixty years of his life just fighting to get the bills paid. His future children will go to the same underfunded schooling and be unable to go to college, especially if tuition costs continue rising at the rate they are currently. Those children will then go into the same low wage jobs and start the cycle all over again.

That is the way systematic racism destroys. It ensures that black families remain in poor, dangerous neighborhoods, as it makes upward mobility nearly impossible.

[tjinaz]

nm

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by strombad

Oh good, penis jokes.

Clearly hitting the peak of intellectual discourse. Get back to me when you're above repeating the different versions of the same flawed example and calling names.

And yeah, if you're referring to part of me, you're referring to me. Pretty simple.

At this point I realize you must be trolling. No one can be this obtuse and not be doing it on purpose.

You win, you had me for quite a few hours.

Have a nice day. Now I wonder which reject return poster you actually are, because I have a feeling the first banning was likely well warranted.

[strombad]

When in doubt, resort to calling someone a troll and a returning poster. That'll solve everything.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I think you are misreading the article and are getting hung up on the word racism and your understanding of it.
This might explain how they are using the word and where your confusion is coming from.

I don't disagree with your definition being the common one, btw.

[QUOTE ]Racial Prejudice can be directed at white people (i.e. white people can't dance) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship of power.[\QUOTE]

And that is where I disagree. That is racism, although their example is stupid and really trivializes it. There are far worse things that happen than someone saying they can't dance. It's another reason I can't take that website seriously.

The systematic relationship of power helps define the type or level of racism (i.e., institutional, vs. personal), but it's still racism. Choosing a definition for racism that purposely excludes people of one particular race is.... racist.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

And that is where I disagree. That is racism, although their example is stupid and really trivializes it. There are far worse things that happen than someone saying they can't dance. It's another reason I can't take that website seriously.

I agree with you.

The reason the site broke it down to a more granular level is something I don't agree with, but I kind of understand why they did it. They are trying to explain different facets within the monolith blob that is general racism. Things like prejudice at a personal level have a much different impact on someone's life than systematic racism.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I agree with you.



The reason the site broke it down to a more granular level is something I don't agree with, but I kind of understand why they did it. They are trying to explain different facets within the monolith blob that is general racism. Things like prejudice at a personal level have a much different impact on someone's life than systematic racism.

The funny thing is, based on this paragraph, you've agreed with me the entire time. Not sure why the fight then if we're on the same page!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Bobby also may not have the option of pursuing an education, given that his parents likely were unable to save money for him to get a higher education, since black men and women make considerably less than their white counterparts. Also given that Bobby attended a school with lower funding, his teachers were unable to give him a proper education, so Bobby is unlikely to qualify for scholarships that would allow him to get assistance from scholarships.

So Bobby may or may not be able to get a job directly out of high school, making minimum wage (which is a joke in the US as it is, no one can survive on $7.25/hour), and will spend the next sixty years of his life just fighting to get the bills paid. His future children will go to the same underfunded schooling and be unable to go to college, especially if tuition costs continue rising at the rate they are currently. Those children will then go into the same low wage jobs and start the cycle all over again.

That is the way systematic racism destroys. It ensures that black families remain in poor, dangerous neighborhoods, as it makes upward mobility nearly impossible.

I think there are obvious examples of both that happen in our society. There are those stuck in a cycle of poverty that had (or has) racism as the root cause, but there are also those who shun opportunity because it's much easier to stay down than pick oneself up.

No one should ever ignore the negative impact racism has on economic equality, but using racism as the catch all excuse just helps enable people with no ambition. From my own experience of living in just about every corner of this country, when you go to small town Canada, most of the black people that live there are usually fairly successful and well off compared to those who live in the inner-cities. If it were just racism holding them back, geographic location wouldn't matter.

[ae118]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

And that is where I disagree. That is racism, although their example is stupid and really trivializes it. There are far worse things that happen than someone saying they can't dance. It's another reason I can't take that website seriously.

The systematic relationship of power helps define the type or level of racism (i.e., institutional, vs. personal), but it's still racism. Choosing a definition for racism that purposely excludes people of one particular race is.... racist.

Damn. I am commenting.

You may not want to take those websites seriously, but power + privilege is a common (and growing) way of defining racism vs. prejudice sociologically. Looking at it that way, we can all be prejudiced in our view of someone based on their ethnicity, then discriminate (the behavior) against them. Their specific race/ethnicity and ours aren't important. Everyone can experience discrimination. And colloquially, you can call that "racism" from a functional perspective (same with really any gross generalization or stereotype you might apply to someone based on their race/ethnicity).

But sociologists use the concept on a more macro level, because the power structure of society is directly relevant. When you have the power and you discriminate, the effects of your discrimination are wide-ranging compared to the effects if you don't have power. This is true for white people in western society, but also for other situations where different groups have traditionally had power and for microcosms within the big picture.


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