The Alison Redford transgressions thread. Update- Redford quits.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There are times when it is prudent to use multiple flights, such as to prevent losing too many high ranking officials at once in case of an accident. I suspect that most of these incidents don't fit that argument, however.

You just gave Alison a way out. Let's see if she uses this argument as her defense.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There are times when it is prudent to use multiple flights, such as to prevent losing too many high ranking officials at once in case of an accident. I suspect that most of these incidents don't fit that argument, however.

that would be a good argument, but I don't think at this point its a buyable argument. Especially after the South Africa Debacle where they were busted in not using available and on time commercial flights.

It now comes across as Alison in a thick Kennedy accent yelling out of her door, Fire up the plane and send the limo to pick up my kid and her friends.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by darklord700

You just gave Alison a way out. Let's see if she uses this argument as her defense.

Nah, she's myopic enough that she'll argue something like how she had to leave a half hour earlier to spend more time with her family.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Jacks

It is very obvious that about 27% of the vote shifted directly from the PC's to the WR last election. The total collapse of the Lib vote allowed the PC's to retain power.

It is pretty obvious that the reason the WRP lost the last election was they way they embraced extremist elements who were spouting off antiquated and hateful sentiments that the majority of the province doesn't not agree with. This was likely due to some left wing voters choosing to back the PC party rather than allow the WRP to take power, but that doesn't change the fact that the WRP was the author of their own demise.

You can think it is something else, but if they don't fix that perception, even the continual screwups from Redford won't allow for a WRP majority.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Rathji

It is pretty obvious that the reason the WRP lost the last election was they way they embraced extremist elements who were spouting off antiquated and hateful sentiments that the majority of the province doesn't not agree with.

I think WR lost because they believed in the poll too much. Too much to change their course even in the face of those extremist candidates. Had WR simply fired those two or three problem candidates, they probably would have had won more votes.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There are times when it is prudent to use multiple flights, such as to prevent losing too many high ranking officials at once in case of an accident. I suspect that most of these incidents don't fit that argument, however.

It's Alberta... they aren't that important.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

It's Alberta... they aren't that important.

Try telling Alison that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Rathji

It is pretty obvious that the reason the WRP lost the last election was they way they embraced extremist elements who were spouting off antiquated and hateful sentiments that the majority of the province doesn't not agree with. This was likely due to some left wing voters choosing to back the PC party rather than allow the WRP to take power, but that doesn't change the fact that the WRP was the author of their own demise.

You can think it is something else, but if they don't fix that perception, even the continual screwups from Redford won't allow for a WRP majority.

I would argue that you have things a little backwards. I don't see how Wildrose embraced those idiots, as much as they didn't act strongly enough to them. Instead of a they don't speak for us and a solid boot, they fumbled through a apology that came out lame and half a##ed. But I didn't see where Wild Rose stood up and said "Yeah burn all the gays they're going to hell anyways"

I gave the PC"s credit because that was the only opening that they needed to boost up a utterly terrible candidate like Redford and shift the attention from her terrible performance in the debate and the fact that she was blathering on about nothing in her campaign and allowing them to ramp up the rhetoric.

Wild Rose lost more due to political inexperience then anything else.

I would think that they are going to heavily scrutinize any of their candidates, make sure that they stay on message in the next election and really twist the heat on Redford who doesn't seem to be that swift in a lot of ways.

I doubt that Danielle Smith who isn't great is going to be caught short in the next election.

the scary thought for the PC's is that Alberta seems to be a dynasty province and when you lose power you don't get it back.

They're caught between a rock and a hard place, Redford is terrible and unsympathetic and comes across as incredibly arrogant and seems to be a bit corrupt. But the PC's can't keep replacing leaders because an unstable leadership structure will eventually kick them in the a$$, and they don't have anyone that's separated themselves from Redford in line to take on the leadership.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Rathji

It is pretty obvious that the reason the WRP lost the last election was they way they embraced extremist elements who were spouting off antiquated and hateful sentiments that the majority of the province doesn't not agree with. This was likely due to some left wing voters choosing to back the PC party rather than allow the WRP to take power, but that doesn't change the fact that the WRP was the author of their own demise.

You can think it is something else, but if they don't fix that perception, even the continual screwups from Redford won't allow for a WRP majority.

I agree with CC that you are mischaracterizing the "bozo eruptions" by claiming that the WRP "embraced extremist elements". They did fail to effectively denounce those elements, however, which was ultimately their downfall. As you say, they authored their own demise there.

That said, a party with 34% of the vote has widespread support among the mainstream, and that should have been deeply concerning for the PCs. Mid-term polls are dangerous to read too much into because the opposition parties often score higher in them. Chances are that the protest "votes" going to the Liberals and NDP in the polls today will shift back to the PCs come the next election as it will shape up to be another WRP vs. PC battle. The question will come down to how effective Wildrose's work as the Opposition plus their continued evolution of party platform is at leeching support from the Tories.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I think WR lost because they believed in the poll too much. Too much to change their course even in the face of those extremist candidates. Had WR simply fired those two or three problem candidates, they probably would have had won more votes.

100% agree. It wasn't about what the party policy was, it was about the right wing boogeyman that the media and the PC party successfully played.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would argue that you have things a little backwards. I don't see how Wildrose embraced those idiots, as much as they didn't act strongly enough to them. Instead of a they don't speak for us and a solid boot, they fumbled through a apology that came out lame and half a##ed. But I didn't see where Wild Rose stood up and said "Yeah burn all the gays they're going to hell anyways"

I gave the PC"s credit because that was the only opening that they needed to boost up a utterly terrible candidate like Redford and shift the attention from her terrible performance in the debate and the fact that she was blathering on about nothing in her campaign and allowing them to ramp up the rhetoric.

Wild Rose lost more due to political inexperience then anything else.

I would think that they are going to heavily scrutinize any of their candidates, make sure that they stay on message in the next election and really twist the heat on Redford who doesn't seem to be that swift in a lot of ways.

I doubt that Danielle Smith who isn't great is going to be caught short in the next election.

the scary thought for the PC's is that Alberta seems to be a dynasty province and when you lose power you don't get it back.

They're caught between a rock and a hard place, Redford is terrible and unsympathetic and comes across as incredibly arrogant and seems to be a bit corrupt. But the PC's can't keep replacing leaders because an unstable leadership structure will eventually kick them in the a$$, and they don't have anyone that's separated themselves from Redford in line to take on the leadership.

If you don't speak against those issues when you are confronted with them, then you are tacitly implying that you agree with them, even if you don't. Call it embracing or whatever you want, the pot still looked black to a lot of people.

That's why they lost.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Rathji

100% agree. It wasn't about what the party policy was, it was about the right wing boogeyman that the media and the PC party successfully played.



If you don't speak against those issues when you are confronted with them, then you are tacitly implying that you agree with them, even if you don't. Call it embracing or whatever you want, the pot still looked black to a lot of people.

That's why they lost.

Furthermore the media totally ignored a similar statement from one of the PC candidates as the hunt was on to attack the Wildrose.

I'm sure Danielle Smith has learned her lesson this time around and would speak more forcefully against and likely remove the candidacy from anyone indicted by the media.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I agree with CC that you are mischaracterizing the "bozo eruptions" by claiming that the WRP "embraced extremist elements". They did fail to effectively denounce those elements, however, which was ultimately their downfall. As you say, they authored their own demise there.

That said, a party with 34% of the vote has widespread support among the mainstream, and that should have been deeply concerning for the PCs. Mid-term polls are dangerous to read too much into because the opposition parties often score higher in them. Chances are that the protest "votes" going to the Liberals and NDP in the polls today will shift back to the PCs come the next election as it will shape up to be another WRP vs. PC battle. The question will come down to how effective Wildrose's work as the Opposition plus their continued evolution of party platform is at leeching support from the Tories.

One could make an arguement that the reason why they did not effectively denounce those elements that well is because if they appeared too heavy handed they might alienate the 'bozo' vote. Which let's face it, they were attempting to reach out towards effectively with official policy at the time.

The 'conscience rights'' BS was exactly that. It was a carrot to entice a socially conservative demographic of longtime PC supporters to vote for them instead of the PCs.

As a personal aside I still cannot for the life of me understand why we cannot get a party that supports economic and personal liberty. It seems that government needs to be either in your back pocket or in your bedroom.

[darklord700]

Did the two bozo WR candidates really cost them last election? They could have cost WR some votes but PC winning majority in convincing fashion told me that perhaps Albertans just were not ready for WR 2 years ago.

And also Albertans hadn't seen the real face of Alison like they do now. It still a mystery to me how the polls could be so wrong painting a easy majority win for WR last time.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fotze

I was at a luncheon last week where the guest speaker was some MP of a rural Saskatchewan. Also attending were around 10 Alberta MLA's to just sit there. It struck me that these people are probably flying all over the country and province to give these soul destroying brutal canned speeches or to "attend" events. This speech and like most others given by these people are complete and utter drivel.

Does anyone ever ask if there is actual value out of flying the MP of Rosetown around the country to read meaningless clichés from a binder at the opening of a dildo factory?

I can see the prime minister and maybe the Premier's of provinces but Jesus, what a waste.

Also, don't these people know that they are saying absolutely nothing when they read speeches like this, aren't they embarrassed?


Here here.

Wait a minute...you were at the opening of a dildo factory? I probably should be more surprised than I am!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Did the two bozo WR candidates really cost them last election? They could have cost WR some votes but PC winning majority in convincing fashion told me that perhaps Albertans just were not ready for WR 2 years ago.

I would say Wildrose thinks it did. Moderating their image has been a party priority since.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by darklord700

It still a mystery to me how the polls could be so wrong painting a easy majority win for WR last time.

The polls weren't wrong, they are only a snapshot in time. Right before the election the last polls were showing a major shift in voter intention but it wasn't widely reported.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I think bringing our spending under control would be of much more importance than pretending we have some kind of revenue shortage. We live in a province where spending has increased almost 50% in the last decade AFTER accounting for inflation and population growth (over 100% increase before adjustments). The average Alberta bureaucrat costs 10% more than the comparable employee in the private sector, and the management to worker ratio is ridiculous.

If we'd kept our spending in line with other provinces, like Ontario or Saskatchewan, we'd have remained in the black with billions saved in the heritage trust fund as well.

We need to stop overspending before we institute any new taxes.

This pretty much sums everything up.

Had spending been under control, we could have even been set up for a tax cut, or some kind of rebate.

I still can not believe the Alison's COS makes more than the COS for Barack Obama.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

This pretty much sums everything up.

Had spending been under control, we could have even been set up for a tax cut, or some kind of rebate.

I still can not believe the Alison's COS makes more than the COS for Barack Obama.

Yup, and supposedly she wants to add another million in office costs to her budget next year.

you can bet there are probably 100 freedom of information act applications hitting her office now.

[darklord700]

This woman has no conscience when it comes to spending public money. She doesn't think that is real money, more like monopoly money to her to be exact.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by darklord700

This woman has no conscience when it comes to spending public money. She doesn't think that is real money, more like monopoly money to be exact.

I hate to sound snide, but her primary career was as a lawyer with a specialty in human rights and international law.

she was bought into the Conservative Party to soften its edges and ensure a win by reaching out to the unions.

I'm sure that she saw the Provincial leadership as a road map to something greater like the Prime Ministers Office or a higher appointment to the UN.

I've always thought she was unsuitable to not only provincial politics but politics as a whole, she comes across as a pretty unpleasant and arrogant person and now she's being flayed alive and not handling it well.