Cities flying pride flags during Olympics; Support it?

[strombad]

Yeah I'm cool with raising a large selection of flags to support different issues regarding human rights. Great idea!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by strombad

Yeah I'm cool with raising a large selection of flags to support different issues regarding human rights. Great idea!

How much do you want to bet none of the people suggesting this would be happy if it actually happened?

[The Familia]

I don't want any flags raised other than the three I stated. That opinion will remain consistent with every issue on CP. My point is why do we need these flags? There are many issues out there. I don't support one over the other nor do I want 100 flag's flying. Will they change people's perception simply because they are there? No. Homophobes will be homophobes. Racists will be racists. A flag won't change that. Does the rainbow flag offend me? No. Do I want it flying at city hall? No. The OP's question is do I support the flag flying at city hall. The answer is no.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I don't want any flags raised other than the three I stated. That opinion will remain consistent with every issue on CP. My point is why do we need these flags? There are many issues out there. I don't support one over the other nor do I want 100 flag's flying. Will they change people's perception simply because they are there? No. Homophobes will be homophobes. Racists will be racists. A flag won't change that. Does the rainbow flag offend me? No. Do I want it flying at city hall? No. The OP's question is do I support the flag flying at city hall. The answer is no.

You're not even close on this one. I personally changed my stance on gay marriage because of social acceptance, which comes from public shows of support EXACTLY like this one.

Cowboy89 admitted the same thing. You guys have no idea what you're talking about when you make comments like "Nothing will change, so why bother", "This is so minor, it's not worth it".

I can't even find a nice or polite way to say this. You simply do not know what you're talking about, and are completely wrong. Sorry for the bluntness.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I don't want any flags raised other than the three I stated. That opinion will remain consistent with every issue on CP. My point is why do we need these flags? There are many issues out there. I don't support one over the other nor do I want 100 flag's flying. Will they change people's perception simply because they are there? No. Homophobes will be homophobes. Racists will be racists. A flag won't change that. Does the rainbow flag offend me? No. Do I want it flying at city hall? No. The OP's question is do I support the flag flying at city hall. The answer is no.

A few thoughts:

(1) You don't support any cause more strongly than any other cause?

(2) Also, unless the city is supporting every possible cause or every disenfranchised group in the exact same way, the city should not support any cause or disenfranchised group at all?

Sorry, but neither of those two statements are rational or reasonable.

Further, your statement that flying the flag won't cure homophobes completely misses the point of raising the flag. The point of raising the flag is to affirm to gay persons living in Calgary, Canada, and around the world that, despite persecution in Russia, as well as in Canada's recent past, they are valued members of our community.

Anyway, it frankly sounds to me like a lot of rhetorical gymnastics to try to defend an indefensible position.

[doozwimp]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Except the Germans flat out deny it has anything to do with the LGBT rights.

They'd have to. Against the Olympic charter to display political messages. Regardless of actual intent, it doesn't matter, because those uniforms now carry that assossiation whether the Germans meant them to or not.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Okay, so you agree that we need to support everything or nothing then?
Also, will that opinion remain consistent with every issue that comes up on CP, for you? Or more so this one than others?

Wow, I'm curious what you're suggesting with this one? Up to your continued passive aggressive posts again? Subtly suggesting the poster might be altering their opinion for this specific subject because it's gay related?

Originally Posted by flameswin

You're not even close on this one. I personally changed my stance on gay marriage because of social acceptance, which comes from public shows of support EXACTLY like this one.

Cowboy89 admitted the same thing. You guys have no idea what you're talking about when you make comments like "Nothing will change, so why bother", "This is so minor, it's not worth it".

I can't even find a nice or polite way to say this. You simply do not know what you're talking about, and are completely wrong. Sorry for the bluntness.

Odd high horse position that you've been taking through this whole thread considering you were actually against gay marriage. Also so bluntly accusing people of "not knowing what you're talking about, and are completely wrong"?

Give it a rest. You've pretty much thanked everyone who's supported your opinion throughout the thread and made subtle offensive and rude posts to a bunch of other people.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Don't agree with the flag. It starts setting a precedent. Why not a flag of a kid to show support towards ending child slavery? Why not a flag with the silhouette of a woman on it to support women's rights across the world? Why not a flag of a dolphin to support eliminating illegal poaching?

Because right now we have gay men and women competing in the Olympics representing Canada. They went to a country that criminializes how they were born to show their love of sport and their love of our country. The least we can do is show some small gestures in return that remind them that we as a nation are proud of them, and appreciate them being ambassedors for us.

I say the above; without specific knowledge of any particular individual, but knowing the ratio of homosexual to herto; odds are there are several.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Wow, I'm curious what you're suggesting with this one? Up to your continued passive aggressive posts again? Subtly suggesting the poster might be altering their opinion for this specific subject because it's gay related?




Odd high horse position that you've been taking through this whole thread considering you were actually against gay marriage. Also so bluntly accusing people of "not knowing what you're talking about, and are completely wrong"?

Give it a rest. You've pretty much thanked everyone who's supported your opinion throughout the thread and made subtle offensive and rude posts to a bunch of other people.

Yeah, I've been a little rude in this thread, sorry. Yeah, I was homophobic, that was over ten years ago, when honestly, everyone seemed to be.

But yeah, it is a little contradictive for me to be on a high horse, I guess it just seems kind of surprising that people in 2014 are acting the way I did towards gays when I was a stupid teenager in a much more bigoted environment (late nineties/early 2000's).

I'm just really disappointed is all, I honestly can't believe so many people are opposed to simply flying a Pride flag to show support, and to be completely honest with you, I don't think there's any way that every person who has commented in this thread about not wanting it up there, is doing so for the reasons they're stating.

I mean, "there's bigger issues" "I just don't think it's right"? C'mon. You'd have to be naïve to not think there was some homophobia behind some of these comments.

Again, though, sorry for the brashness, I'll tone it down a bit.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Wow, I'm curious what you're suggesting with this one? Up to your continued passive aggressive posts again? Subtly suggesting the poster might be altering their opinion for this specific subject because it's gay related?

In light of the absurdity of the stated opinion, I think that is a perfectly fair suggestion to make. Indeed, it seems to be the only logical conclusion.

Odd high horse position that you've been taking through this whole thread considering you were actually against gay marriage. Also so bluntly accusing people of "not knowing what you're talking about, and are completely wrong"?

I don't see what is odd or inconsistent about it? He believed x. He then changed his mind, determined that x was incorrect, and now believes y. Why wouldn't he now believe that other people who still believe x are wrong?

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yeah, I've been a little rude in this thread, sorry. Yeah, I was homophobic, that was over ten years ago, when honestly, everyone seemed to be.

But yeah, it is a little contradictive for me to be on a high horse, I guess it just seems kind of surprising that people on 2014 are acting the way I did towards gays when I was a stupid teenager in a much more bigoted environment (late nineties/early 2000's).

I'm just really disappointed is all, I honestly can't believe so many people are opposed to simply flying a Pride flag to show support, and to be completely honest with you, I don't think there's any way that every person who has commented in this thread about not wanting it up there, is doing so for the reasons they're stating.

I mean, "there's bigger issues" "I just don't think it's right"? C'mon. You'd have to be naïve to not think there was some homophobia behind some of these comments.

Again, though, sorry for the brashness, I'll tone it down a bit.

Re: bolded part: wha, wha what? No, that's not how these threads are supposed to go lol.

How about considering that there might be people that aren't the least bit homophobic at all and might not see this as a "must do" or a "big deal"?

I just read Ken's post above and it's the BEST reasoning I've seen in this thread as to why to put up the flag. That one I can agree with. But without that point, I still have the same feeling I did when this thread started.

I used to go to Detours and whatever else there was back when I was 18 which is pushing 20 years ago, because it had good music, cheap drinks and smoking hot chicks. Please realize that people can be ignorant to the reasons behind doing something, or insensitive, or anything else like that without being wrong, or actually against gay anything. If I'm a moron because of my opinion and I'm not seeing something others are that's allowed, but I don't think considering people to be doing it because they're secretly anti anything is fair.

I probably was a little to worked up as well, and apologize if that was the case.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Because right now we have gay men and women competing in the Olympics representing Canada. They went to a country that criminializes how they were born to show their love of sport and their love of our country. The least we can do is show some small gestures in return that remind them that we as a nation are proud of them, and appreciate them being ambassedors for us.

I say the above; without specific knowledge of any particular individual, but knowing the ratio of homosexual to herto; odds are there are several.

Good post, I'm willing to reconsider my position based on what you've said with the above.

[Zarley]

It's certainly an upgrade over the Union Jack.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Makarov

In light of the absurdity of the stated opinion, I think that is a perfectly fair suggestion to make. Indeed, it seems to be the only logical conclusion.





I don't see what is odd or inconsistent about it? He believed x. He then changed his mind, determined that x was incorrect, and now believes y. Why wouldn't he now believe that other people who still believe x are wrong?

Linking not making a logical argument to being anti-gay is not fair. It's simply jumping too far in assumption making and not fair to the poster. I think the majority of people on calgarypuck deserve the benefit of the doubt before labeling them racist/biggots/antigay or any variation of those.

I've said some pretty stupid things on this forum and no doubt deserve to have them brought up if at some point down the line I'm contradicting what I said. But that's within reason. People can change their minds. I didn't judge flameswin for being against gay marriage, I just thought given he was once against something he should lay off the accusations that someone else (or myself) might be against something gay-related because of our opinion on a flag.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Zarley

It's certainly an upgrade over the Union Jack.

A post that is worth thanking.

[saskflames69]

There should be three permanent flag poles in front of every city hall. Municipal, Provincial and National. If they want to raise a rainbow flag because it's the right thing to do these days then why not? Erect a temporary one until public interest dies down. Apparently since inequality has nothing to do with the superficial matters that I use as examples on here, it is not the same thing as raising a flames flag at city hall during the playoffs. Carry on.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by saskflames69

There should be three permanent flag poles in front of every city hall. Municipal, Provincial and National. If they want to raise a rainbow flag because it's the right thing to do these days then why not? Erect a temporary one until public interest dies down. It is no different from your city raising a Flames flag during the playoffs.

Sorry, ranchlandselling, I've come around to respect where you're coming from and realize I was being harsh, but this Flames/inequality comparison by saskflamesfan, I can't let go without a gif.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Don't agree with the flag. It starts setting a precedent. Why not a flag of a kid to show support towards ending child slavery? Why not a flag with the silhouette of a woman on it to support women's rights across the world? Why not a flag of a dolphin to support eliminating illegal poaching? How about a flag with a wheelchair to show support for people with disabilities? Maybe a green flag with a dollar symbol and a circle of hands around it as a symbol to end world poverty? I Don't like when one agenda is pushed in favor of others. Let me clarify that I am not a homophobe before everyone jumps on me. I am all in favor for equal rights and tolorence, I just don't care for the flying of the flag at a government institution (or any flag other than Canada/Alberta/Calgary flags).

It should be pointed out that there is a process by which community groups can apply to have flags raised at City Hall. For instance, if there was a flag of a country to be raised to celebrate a particular important date in a country's history, that community in Calgary can apply to have that flag raised at City Hall. If there was a recognized flag to support a people with disabilities cause (as per one of your examples), they can also apply to have that flag raised.

The Mayor also has discretion over flags - he chose to exercise that discretion in this case.

[saskflames69]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Sorry, ranchlandselling, I've come around to respect where you're coming from and realize I was being harsh, but this Flames/inequality comparison by saskflamesfan, I can't let go without a gif.

Look, I have tried very hard to be more tolerant towards this issue, but the reality is that I just do not care.

I look forward to the day where this topic is no longer news and we all just get along.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by saskflames69

Look, I have tried very hard to be more tolerant towards this issue, but the reality is that I just do not care.

I look forward to the day where this topic is no longer news and we all just get along.

Okay, well for starters, you caring would be a step in the direction you want this to go.