Creationism Vs. Evolution Debate - Nye Vs Ham

[Kybosh]

I'm greatly disturbed by the trend over the last several years where Creationists exploit and manipulate actual science in support of their nonsense. I've seen many websites taking scientist quotes or principles and completely adultering them to meet their needs. The author of a book I started reading last night (Leonard Susskind - The Cosmic Landscape and the Illusion of Intelligent Design) came right out in the introduction stating how he desperately hopes that Creationists will not distort his words.

[Vulcan]

Yeah, for a belief purported to be based on the truth, their playing fast and loose with it, is disturbing. They claim to be blessed by the holy spirit but it's enough to make me question, how holy this spirit is.

[troutman]

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How completely unsurprising of you to have utterly missed the whole point of the linked op-ed piece:

Ummm No, I just take it a little differently than you do, It may be your job to study ancient books and scriptures(don't really know) but everytime there's another find(as you know there's lots) where it shows the stories in the Bible were written by someone else hundreds and sometimes thousands of years earlier it just shows what a big pile of the Bible really is!

You have your job I have mine and my job in my lifetime is to slam religion every chance I get...it's the root of "evil" IMO.

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Bah, the Noah story just doesn't hold water.

Been many years since I was forced to read the Bible but from memory I can't think of one story that holds water.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by T@T

Been many years since I was forced to read the Bible but from memory I can't think of one story that holds water.

Wasn't the point of the story of Noah's ark that it didn't hold water? That it, you know, floated!

*insert rimshot here*

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Wasn't the point of the story of Noah's ark that it didn't hold water? That it, you know, floated!

*insert rimshot here*

Opps!!

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by T@T

Ummm No, I just take it a little differently than you do, It may be your job to study ancient books and scriptures(don't really know) but everytime there's another find(as you know there's lots) where it shows the stories in the Bible were written by someone else hundreds and sometimes thousands of years earlier it just shows what a big pile of the Bible really is!

You have your job I have mine and my job in my lifetime is to slam religion every chance I get...it's the root of "evil" IMO.

Been many years since I was forced to read the Bible but from memory I can't think of one story that holds water.

I'm not what would be considered a christian but as an observer your take of reading the Bible literally so you can lambaste it, is about as stupid as the Christians who believe the Bible literally.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm not what would be considered a christian but as an observer your take of reading the Bible literally so you can lambaste it, is about as stupid as the Christians who believe the Bible literally.

It's his schtick. Let him have it

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by T@T

Ummm No, I just take it a little differently than you do...

Clearly. Which explains how and why you manage to be so wrong all the time in these discussions.

Originally Posted by T@T

It may be your job to study ancient books and scriptures(don't really know) but everytime there's another find(as you know there's lots) where it shows the stories in the Bible were written by someone else hundreds and sometimes thousands of years earlier it just shows what a big pile of the Bible really is!

"By someone else"? Is this what was shown in the attached story? Not at all. If you knew the Bible even half as well as you assert, then you would know that the book of Genesis makes NO CLAIM OF AUTHORSHIP. It makes no claim on the sources of its stories.

Again, you COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT, which was to show how malleable the stories in the Bible really are, which further points to how one ought to gain a better understanding of their significance and meaning. Of course, you tend to be so obtuse in these discussions that I don't expect you to see that. Just go ahead and keep ignorantly spouting off on ancient literature for being, well... ancient.

Originally Posted by T@T

You have your job I have mine and my job in my lifetime is to slam religion every chance I get...it's the root of "evil" IMO.

Your "job"? I expect you don't get paid for this, based on the fact that you don't do it very well.

[undercoverbrother]

I have never understood Christianity's need to show what they believe is true. Isn't the point of faith to not need to be shown what you believe is true?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I have never understood Christianity's need to show what they believe is true. Isn't the point of faith to not need to be shown what you believe is true?

The Protestant reformation, the Renaissance, and the scientific revolution changed all of that. People tend not to grasp how much the western world fundamentally changed in the 15–18 centuries, and the dramatic impact that had collectively on peoples' world views. Rationalism started to dictate epistemology, and this in turn required that "faith" was either not enough to posit knowledge, or it meant a significant change in what "faith" meant. In the end, modern, Evangelical Christianity emerged from this newly forged hyper-rationalism that prioritised scientific absolutes in conjunction with a rigidly plain reading of "scripture", which was purported to be the only possibly valid authority from which to epistemologically reason.

[troutman]

“Mythology is not a lie, mythology is poetry, it is metaphorical. It has been well said that mythology is the penultimate truth--penultimate because the ultimate cannot be put into words. It is beyond words. Beyond images, beyond that bounding rim of the Buddhist Wheel of Becoming. Mythology pitches the mind beyond that rim, to what can be known but not told.”
― Joseph Campbell, The Power of Myth

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"By someone else"? Is this what was shown in the attached story? Not at all. If you knew the Bible even half as well as you assert, then you would know that the book of Genesis makes NO CLAIM OF AUTHORSHIP. It makes no claim on the sources of its stories.

No auther signed but the christians sure like to claim it's theirs

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Again, you COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT, which was to show how malleable the stories in the Bible really are.

We agree on something, storys in the bible are like the 8 inch trout I caught when I was 6 years old but my grangfather had everyone believing I landed a 30lb salmon.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

which further points to how one ought to gain a better understanding of their significance and meaning. Of course, you tend to be so obtuse in these discussions that I don't expect you to see that. Just go ahead and keep ignorantly spouting off on ancient literature for being, well... ancient.

If I thought there was anything importaint in the bible for the future I might give it a little slack, the book and it's storys don't bother me, it's the way religion uses it and the way people take it serious that bugs the crap out of me.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Your "job"? I expect you don't get paid for this, based on the fact that you don't do it very well.

Sorry to disappoint you. I failed in sunday school!

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I have never understood Christianity's need to show what they believe is true. Isn't the point of faith to not need to be shown what you believe is true?

You mean like the 6000 year old earth

[Charcot]

T@T is like the atheist's Calgaryborn. A mind unable to hold a thought that is not its own.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Charcot

T@T is like the atheist's Calgaryborn. A mind unable to hold a thought that is not its own.

There's a difference between Calgaryborn believing everything he's been told and T@T not believing the things he hears.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by T@T

Been many years since I was forced to read the Bible but from memory I can't think of one story that holds water.

Take the measurements from the Bible in relation to Noahs ark and IIRC you would end up with a boat the size of the Queen Mary.

[FlamesAddiction]

It seems to me that only a small minority of Christians are literal believers of the Bible, yet they tend to be the ones that get most of the attention.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Charcot

T@T is like the atheist's Calgaryborn. A mind unable to hold a thought that is not its own.

That really isn't helpful, please don't.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It seems to me that only a small minority of Christians are literal believers of the Bible, yet they tend to be the ones that get most of the attention.

Globally maybe, but 46% of Americans believe humans were created pretty much as is within the last 10,000 years. That's about as good an indication of "literal" as I can imagine, and 46% is not a small minority.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Charcot

T@T is like the atheist's Calgaryborn. A mind unable to hold a thought that is not its own.

You have 70 odd posts in 7 years ...go find another yard to play in geeky troll.

[Charcot]

Originally Posted by T@T

You have 70 odd posts in 7 years ...go find another yard to play in geeky troll.

Apologies to T@T. I should not have posted a personal attack.

What I should have expressed is my discomfort with extremism; whether it be religious or from the atheist point of view.

I am an atheist but believe that there is value in understanding religious texts. Is there wrong done in the name of religion - of course. However it seems to me religion has survived as a social structure in most(?all) societies for millennia. There is probably a reason why that is the case. It may be that some/all societies would function better without any religion. Without trying to understand that I think you risk incomplete understanding of humanity.

The difficulty with holding an extreme point of view is that it does not allow for understanding of other people. That does not allow for any growth in your own views and impoverishes you. It also allows for wrongdoing in the name of absolutely held views.

Post 71 in 7 years. Hopefully better than post 70.