[GDT] Jan 5 - WJC Medal Games - Bronze: CAN vs RUS (7AM MT) & Gold: SWE vs FIN (11AM MT)

[nik-]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Jon Gillies ‏@JGillies32

Teuvo Terräväinen, passed on by 17 teams, and Juuse Saros, passed on until the 4th round...yes, those both actually happened #mindblown

Even our own prospects are trolling us

[Roof-Daddy]

Oh good, the whole Teravainen/Jankowski whine fest again.

Refreshing.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Oh good, the whole Teravainen/Jankowski whine fest again.

Refreshing.

This is a message board... we're going to discuss these things.

But you're right, there's nothing anyone can do about it now. However, I think it was the primary reason why Feaster and Weisbrod were fired.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

We got Feaster'd, big time.

The sad thing is the great majority of the board would have taken Teravainen or Maata instead. Our prospect base would be looking that much better if either of them were on the team. And yes I realize we also were able to pick Sieloff as well, but right now it looks like either of those players are going to be better than both of our guys.

[Haplo]

Forsberg and Lindholm certainly hasn't dominated as I thought they would on home ice. Terävainen has looked like a much more complete player in these games. Would have picked him as MVP.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Not the U20s. Helminen was a deer in the headlights, for example. This year they had a tight team though. They lacked forward talent even by Finnish standards and maybe that put them in the right mindset.

Well that's true. And the national team also had that one Canadian coach recently for a year, who was decisively average, can't remember the name right now... Doug Shedden.

But generally speaking, Finnish teams are well coached teams that work hard and have good goalies. So really it's no wonder that they tend to win more medals than they should based on what their rosters look like on paper.

[Nsd1]

Soo what do you guys think about the flames passing on Marty Brodeur? Terrible decision right?

[trackercowe]

Although what's even worse was Washington trading Forsberg last season for a guy they don't even want anymore (Erat). Too bad they didn't wait a year, as we would have gladly given them Cammy for him.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Itse

Well that's true. And the national team also had that one Canadian coach recently for a year, who was decisively average, can't remember the name right now... Doug Shedden.

But generally speaking, Finnish teams are well coached teams that work hard and have good goalies. So really it's no wonder that they tend to win more medals than they should based on what their rosters look like on paper.

Shedden was okay I thought. He was hired as an interim guy between two Finnish coaches if I recall correctly.

As for Jankowski, let's wait until they're playing in the NHL. Would be nice to have a Flames prospect be the captain and MVP of the junior championship team but in the end we might still like the big center.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This is a message board... we're going to discuss these things.

But you're right, there's nothing anyone can do about it now. However, I think it was the primary reason why Feaster and Weisbrod were fired.

Well, there's discussing it, and then there is whining about it repeatedly despite the fact that neither player has made an NHL roster yet, nor proven anything where it counts.

It's great that Teravainen had a good tourney, but over the years there have been a lot of "flavor of the week" prospects lead this tourney in scoring and never come close to making a dent in the NHL.

Teravainen may eventually prove to have been the better pick, but we won't know for years yet, so it gets a little tiresome reading about it like it's already a foregone conclusion.

[Itse]

Very much agreed about Jankowski. I hope people don't pile on him for being Not Teräväinen (who is in no way guaranteed to become a great player in the NHL).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Well, there's discussing it, and then there is whining about it repeatedly despite the fact that neither player has made an NHL roster yet, nor proven anything where it counts.

It's great that Teravainen had a good tourney, but over the years there have been a lot of "flavor of the week" prospects lead this tourney in scoring and never come close to making a dent in the NHL.

Teravainen may eventually prove to have been the better pick, but we won't know for years yet, so it gets a little tiresome reading about it like it's already a foregone conclusion.

Teuvo hasn't just played good in this tournament... he's consistently played well since he was drafted. In a redraft, he'd probably go top 5.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Teuvo hasn't just played good in this tournament... he's consistently played well since he was drafted. In a redraft, he'd probably go top 5.

Nope

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Teuvo hasn't just played good in this tournament... he's consistently played well since he was drafted. In a redraft, he'd probably go top 5.

Maybe so, but that doesn't change the bottom line, which is that he hasn't proven anything where it matters yet so proclaiming him the better pick is premature and tiresome to see repeatedly.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Nope

Yep

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Maybe so, but that doesn't change the bottom line, which is that he hasn't proven anything where it matters yet so proclaiming him the better pick is premature and tiresome to see repeatedly.

Your logic is flawed.

You can say whether a pick was good or bad, or whether one prospect is better than another prospect, long before they play a game in the NHL.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Who cares, doesn't matter anyway. Burke, Hartley and the Flames would ruin him by demanding complete performance and effort, versus acting scared of their power as prospects and coddling them.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Your logic is flawed.

You can say whether a pick was good or bad, or whether one prospect is better than another prospect, long before they play a game in the NHL.

My logic is flawed?

I'm saying we shouldn't be proclaiming one pick better than another until all the cards are face up and the hand is over.

All that matters from drafting is what you end up with at the NHL level, so it's too early to whine about the final results when you haven't seen them yet.

That's far from flawed.

[nik-]

Teravainen was a hair's width from making the Hawks this year and that's probably the most stacked team in the NHL. It's hardly just flavour of the WJC.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Maybe so, but that doesn't change the bottom line, which is that he hasn't proven anything where it matters yet so proclaiming him the better pick is premature and tiresome to see repeatedly.

Well you can still say that he's better at the moment. All you have to do is read the preseason reports from Chicago and compare them to what people saw from Jankowski to see that TT is a better player right now. The preseason prospect games are the only time they've played at the same level and Teuvo dominated. In the two years he's been there, Teuvo has 26 points in 13 games at the U20 tournament.

Tiresome, sure, but also inevitable when pick a guy who is so far away that he can't even be compared to his age group until years later. Now we see that Calgary had lots of good options and it's human nature to get impatient.