[PGT] TBL 2 CGY 0 - shutout again

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It's killing the value of our rentals.

I thought Stempniak would get a 2nd round before his injury, now I think we'll be lucky to get a 4th.

I thought Stajan might get a 2nd, will probably get a 3rd now.

Cammalleri I thought would land a 1st and a 2nd/decent prospect. Now I'm worried he might not land a 1st alone.

I am pretty sure GMs take the long view and not just a 5-10 game segment.

Cammy should still net us a first rounder, IMO.

I would keep Stajan. The guy is still battling out there.

[flamesfever]

I think lack of confidence is the Flames biggest factor at this point. Their passing was atrocious, and until the final 10 minutes there was no pushback at all.

Tampa played a great game. I noticed St. Louis goes to the net every chance he gets. No one on our team seems to be anywhere near his calibre. He spends a lot of time talking to his players, and I sense he is the heart and soul of the team.

Byron continues to impress, and I hope Burke's emphasis on size doesn't affect his chances for success on our team going forward.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Ugh. Bring back Aaron Gavey and Jeff shantz.

Other than the flames owners loving their extra 20M and oiler fans who don't have to wear the mantle of worst team in the league anymore I dunno how anyone can enjoy this.

In the end I am not even sure those that dig losing for draft day are going to be happy, cause I have no idea wtf Burke is going to do. I think some people are assuming the flames have gone full oiler but I am not sure. They look more like the organiztion has just shut er down for the year and Burke will hit reset in the summer.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I am pretty sure GMs take the long view and not just a 5-10 game segment.

Cammy should still net us a first rounder, IMO.

I would keep Stajan. The guy is still battling out there.

Agreed on the first point. As for Stajan, Burke needs to find out what Matt wants. If he wants to try for a Cup, move him. If he is happy here and wants to help the rebuild, get an extension done... but a 2-3 year deal this time. No extension at deadline, move him.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Teams don't value players strictly for their last few games. They will take into account Cammalleri's entire career and body of work. Certainly they do keep some up to date scouting but there's no way Cammalleri has completely tanked his value.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Ugh. Bring back Aaron Gavey and Jeff shantz.

*Shudder*

Those guys had less talent than any centre on the Flames right now.

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Other than the flames owners loving their extra 20M and oiler fans who don't have to wear the mantle of worst team in the league anymore I dunno how anyone can enjoy this.

I don't think anyone enjoys rebuilds. But its hard to improve the team overnight. In our case there's not going to be any gain without some pain. This is a tough phase that many have been calling for for years. We're only what, about 1 season in?

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

In the end I am not even sure those that dig losing for draft day are going to be happy, cause I have no idea wtf Burke is going to do. I think some people are assuming the flames have gone full oiler but I am not sure. They look more like the organiztion has just shut er down for the year and Burke will hit reset in the summer.

I don't think we'll go full Oiler. Burke knows too much more about building a winner from the GM seat than Tambellini, Lowe, MacTavish, etc. Why wouldn't we be happy about draft day? In fact I'm much more confident about the draft with Burke at the helm because he emphasizes some attributes that we completely lack (size and strength combined with skill/skating). Plus he has a good history of drafting high and making trades.

Rebuilds are to be endured, not enjoyed. I'm not sure what some of you were expecting...

[Tinordi]

I see a rebuild

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Rebuilds are to be endured, not enjoyed. I'm not sure what some of you were expecting...

I think people weren't expecting and more hoping for some glimmer of the future, some development and direction which as of right now is zero. With the previous GM being fired, no real current GM and a head of hockey ops running the show that is known to be impatient it's cause for concern that this team has zero direction and isn't really being guided to anything.

There is the real potential for this team to get worse should Stajan, Glencross, Cammy and Stempniak all leave us as ufa's. If our asset base continues to depreciate we are in danger of being the worst team for multiple years. Current management gives me no faith in our ability to get decent returns on trades.

[Tinordi]

Uhh, yes, of course this team is getting worse.

My goodness some people are hopeless romantics. This is only half way through the first season of a rebuild. Prepare thyself.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Ugh. Bring back Aaron Gavey and Jeff shantz.

Other than the flames owners loving their extra 20M and oiler fans who don't have to wear the mantle of worst team in the league anymore I dunno how anyone can enjoy this.

In the end I am not even sure those that dig losing for draft day are going to be happy, cause I have no idea wtf Burke is going to do. I think some people are assuming the flames have gone full oiler but I am not sure. They look more like the organiztion has just shut er down for the year and Burke will hit reset in the summer.

I can handle the Flames losing, but I would rather see it with more youth on the roster. IMO there isn't anything that Cami and Stemp are doing right now that can't also be done with a long term player. Backlund and Byron were among the best players on the ice again.

If they fast track the rebuild and trade away picks just to get back to the 9-12 spot in the conference then I'll take a break from going to games like I did last year. Cant't support something like that.

I was bought into Feaster's concept. Not sure if he could have pulled it off. But the regime change seems to have made the team preoccupied. They are terrible right now.

Basically Burke has created a big giant mess to fix IMO. He is wearing a #### ton of hats rights now, but his focus either needs to be on fixing this team or hiring a guy to do it. He is failing at both, I know this because he leaks everything to the media so the fact we have not heard anything yet means bad news.

Smart people fire someone when they have a replacement lined up. Flames are in full ###### mode right now.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by getbak

11 games since Sven was sent down... 4 shutouts. Monahan and Hudler have looked awful with every other winger.

#FreeSven

baertchi fan here, but based on what i saw in the games, he didn't have much to do with the success of the line, or the lack of success since his demotion.

Monahan was also in a similar advantageous position of playing with the team's most skiller player in hudler, yet, not sure if it's just the injury or the normalization after the quick start, but even he's more or less struggled in a while.

i would almost consider why the flames didn't lend monahan to the WJC at the same time they demoted baertchi. i think it would have provided a valuable experience, unless he isn't 100% healthy in which case why is he playing at all?

[Caged Great]

The main problem the Flames have is that most of the quality players we have in the system are either in Junior, college, or their first full year in the AHL. Most players need some time to adjust to the higher tempo game before jumping right in.

The only guy on the farm that should be ready is Reinhart. Most of the others would likely become NHL players during next season or after the deadline (Hanowski, Ferland, Knight, Sven and Granlund).

Usually teams that are entering a rebuild like we are have some guys that are working their way into the lineup already, but all of the players that we've taken in the past 3 seasons save Sven and Monahan have been more project types that take longer.

Next season is when I expect more youth to populate the team. Especially amongst the depth guys.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Teams don't value players strictly for their last few games. They will take into account Cammalleri's entire career and body of work. Certainly they do keep some up to date scouting but there's no way Cammalleri has completely tanked his value.

cammalleri, for sure.. high end player with history of success. but what about a streaky player like stempniak, is it almost better to trade for him when he's hot rather than perhaps the coldest era of his career? Stajan, who started off amazing, has looked pretty avg the past few weeks, which i think could wipe the shine off his trade value.

[Badgers Nose]

How the heck does Buffalo suck so many picks from teams when it deals it's vets? Whatever happens in Calgary, I can see the Sabres being a big deal again in 4-5 years.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I think people weren't expecting and more hoping for some glimmer of the future, some development and direction which as of right now is zero.

The hope and glimmer is mostly in the AHL and junior right now. The hope and glimmer currently on the team includes Brodie, Giordano, Monahan, Colborne, Backlund, Russell and Bouma (as a role player). The developing is occurring mostly in the AHL and junior. The direction? It's pretty clear, we're rebuilding. I'm not sure what you mean by direction.

Originally Posted by AcGold

With the previous GM being fired, no real current GM and a head of hockey ops running the show that is known to be impatient it's cause for concern that this team has zero direction and isn't really being guided to anything.

I'm not really sure what you mean again here. We're rebuilding, that's the direction. We're being guided by Burke. While he admits he is impatient he hasn't shown much yet here and until he makes a move that we should really regret there's not much point worrying about something that may never happen is there?

Originally Posted by AcGold

There is the real potential for this team to get worse should Stajan, Glencross, Cammy and Stempniak all leave us as ufa's. If our asset base continues to depreciate we are in danger of being the worst team for multiple years. Current management gives me no faith in our ability to get decent returns on trades.

I have more faith in Burke to get decent returns on trades than Feaster. Why are you so skeptical about Burke? He's got a pretty good track record as has been pointed out many times. Feaster's track record was a lot worse and should have given us more cause for concern than Burke's. Burke is a guy who turned Francois Beauchemin into Joffrey Lupul and Jake Gardiner. Burke is a guy who turned Stajan, Hagman and White into Phaneuf. Burke is the guy who acquired Pronger. Burke is the guy who traded to get both Sedins at the draft. Feaster has almost nothing comparable to Burke's best deals.

If Burke turns our UFA's into picks/prospects then our asset base hasn't been depreciated at all although as you point out the team may become immediately weaker.

Glencross still has another year so talk of him leaving as an UFA seems premature.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I can handle the Flames losing, but I would rather see it with more youth on the roster. IMO there isn't anything that Cami and Stemp are doing right now that can't also be done with a long term player. Backlund and Byron were among the best players on the ice again.

Then don't watch any games until after the trade deadline. You'll get your wish for more young players at that point. Another influx could come as our college prospects finish their season and then potentially sign with us.

[AcGold]

I'm not skeptical about Burke so much as I look at the history of major trades in the past few years and don't see much in terms of legitimate returns. Phaneuf, Regehr, Iginla, Bouwmeester all gone. Look at what we have in return for those 4 assets. I understand what the situation is with Burke, his history and all just don't have a good feeling about the way things are headed. If the 4 key ufa's coming up gets nobody usable in the NHL we are really screwed. This isn't to say things won't turn around, but there has been some bad asset management for a long time and we really need to win a few trades to stop sliding. Going to be tough to develop a group of complete prospects.

[Badgers Nose]

I don't think the deadline deals will be all that much better than what could transpire now.

With the new cap, deadline day is going to become a yawn fest.

Contenders and want to be contenders will give up more now I think. At deadline there will be fewer teams in the mix.

Also I would prefer to see youth development accelerated by 15-20 games. Create some holes for them to fill and let Hartley work his hard work ethic magic on them.

[Flash Walken]

That westgarth attack on the goalie was garbage. If I am coach, that is a way to play yourself off my team.

Didn't like it as galiardi's first impression, don't like it as Westgarth's.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I'm not skeptical about Burke so much as I look at the history of major trades in the past few years and don't see much in terms of legitimate returns. Phaneuf, Regehr, Iginla, Bouwmeester all gone. Look at what we have in return for those 4 assets. I understand what the situation is with Burke, his history and all just don't have a good feeling about the way things are headed. If the 4 key ufa's coming up gets nobody usable in the NHL we are really screwed.

In Calgary's entire history they had 2 good GMs, Fletcher and Coates.

Not sure Burke is in that class, but he is better than Riser and Button for sure.