Conversatives to repeal Daylight Savings Time in Alberta

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Also as I said in another post, people who work outside won't have light until 9:30. A dangerous situation just to satisfy some office workers whim.

I think comparing an adult, who if working outside near traffic would have to have safety training and a full comprehension of the risks of working outside, in the dark, near traffic, to a 6 year old a stretch.

Then again I don't live in Alberta, perhaps the adults out there aren't smarter than the kids in grade 1.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by kevman

As for sleep patterns, I reckon going to the pub on Saturday has a far bigger impact on peoples sleep patterns than a 1 hour change twice a year.

If my kids are in the pub, there is a hell of a lot more wrong with my situation than what frakking time it is in Alberta, that's for damn sure.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I think comparing an adult, who if working outside near traffic would have to have safety training and a full comprehension of the risks of working outside, in the dark, near traffic, to a 6 year old a stretch.

Then again I don't live in Alberta, perhaps the adults out there aren't smarter than the kids in grade 1.

I'm not necessarily talking about working near traffic, I'm talking about working in construction. It's dangerous enough when you can see what you're doing. I walked iron beams, sometimes covered in snow, sometimes in strong winds and now some idiots expect these people too work in the dark.

but I see where you are coming from, the only outside workers you are aware of are those you see near traffic.

sorry to be harsh, I like your posts but you don't understand the situation.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm not necessarily talking about working near traffic, I'm talking about working in construction. It's dangerous enough when you can see what you're doing. I walked iron beams, sometimes covered in snow, sometimes in strong winds and now some idiots expect these people too work in the dark.

Couldn't construction sites start work later? If you weren't to start later, would you, or another shift, gain an hour of sunlight in the afternoon, thus offsetting the effect in the morning?

(I'm guessing the reason you can't start working later because you guys start as soon as the noise laws allow you to, but perhaps the noise windows could be adjusted.)

[You Need a Thneed]

Our guys start in the dark, and finish in the dark anyway.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm not necessarily talking about working near traffic, I'm talking about working in construction. It's dangerous enough when you can see what you're doing. I walked iron beams, sometimes covered in snow, sometimes in strong winds and now some idiots expect these people too work in the dark.

So can you not just start work later and end later? It's not like we are subtracting an hour of sunlight from the day.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm not necessarily talking about working near traffic, I'm talking about working in construction. It's dangerous enough when you can see what you're doing. I walked iron beams, sometimes covered in snow, sometimes in strong winds and now some idiots expect these people too work in the dark.

but I see where you are coming from, the only outside workers you are aware of are those you see near traffic.

sorry to be harsh, I like your posts but you don't understand the situation.

I'm starting to see your point. But I feel like your issue is an employer one and not one with daylight savings.

Working in construction in the dark, to me, sounds like an unsafe work place. If you do have to work in the dark shouldn't the employer be providing ample lighting to ensure a safe workplace?

I know here in Nova Scotia on highway construction sites that run beyond daylight hours temporary lamp posts are setup to ensure workers can see what they are doing.

In terms of other types of construction I honestly don't know. However, as another poster stated why couldn't the start time adjust to the sunrise and sunset? It seems to me the safety of the children travelling to school would take priority over a construction crew's 8-5 schedule, especially where the nature of construction is less rigid than the standard 8-5 workday.

I guess what we are arguing boils down to where do it priorities lie? I put the protection of children at the top of my list as it affects a broader amount of people and a vulnerable segment of the population. You have workplace safety and the economy at the top of your list. Don't get me wrong, that's very important. However, I think the compromise is to shift construction start times or add lighting. I have mentioned pushing back the start time for classes but I think the construction adjustments are more feisable.

Also, you're not being harsh, frankly I don't care if you are. The point of this is to increase discussion and debate on an issue. I used to be in the DST all year camp. I couldn't wrap my head around why we still use the time shift. A friend mentioned the kids going to school in the dark issue and my mind instantly changed. Children's safety superseded all inconviences in my mind. So I'm open to have my mind changed. I've always thought of debate as a way to increase knowledge, ask questions to get answers. With new information comes new perspective. Sometimes if someone is missing the point a harsh or over generalization is needed to get the other person to see your point (that doesn't mean the other person is any less intelligent just that we all have our biases and blinders).

[ken0042]

Once again, let's step back and look at things. Some of the people who want us to move to MDT all year are proposing things like starting school late, and starting construction late. Is that easier than changing the clocks twice per year? Also, consider the ripple effect. Many people (myself included when my son was younger) start work based upon what time kids go off to school.

If this goes through; I cannot see us going onto MDT. We will remain on MST all year. That means the latest sunset would be 9:00, and by the end of August sunset would be at 7:30. Is that what you would be willing to settle for?

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by SebC

Couldn't construction sites start work later? If you weren't to start later, would you, or another shift, gain an hour of sunlight in the afternoon, thus offsetting the effect in the morning?

(I'm guessing the reason you can't start working later because you guys start as soon as the noise laws allow you to, but perhaps the noise windows could be adjusted.)

So you are suggesting that we change the clocks, then have the workers and possibly school children adjust their schedules and then revise the noise laws to push things back further so that you can get out of work sooner.
Wouldn't the same thing be accomplished a lot easier if you just adjusted your own schedule to start and get off earlier?

[Ducay]

Clearly if/when we repeal DST we should choose to be on Mountain Daylight Time permanently, but to aide in construction and kids schedules in the winter, we go to Pacific Daylight time for the 4 darkest months. Probably pretty easy to implement too

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

So you are suggesting that we change the clocks, then have the workers and possibly school children adjust their schedules and then revise the noise laws to push things back further so that you can get out of work sooner.
Wouldn't the same thing be accomplished a lot easier if you just adjusted your own schedule to start and get off earlier?

I'm the one that proposed change the school start time IF we feel the need to stop the time change is so great (which I don't think it is).

I'm firmly in the Standard and Daylight Savings use camp.

That said. Why would noise by-laws need to be changed? What are your noise by-laws like (legitimate question, I honestly don't know. I wouldn't think an hour time difference would have any effect on bikes by-laws).

[GP_Matt]

SebC was suggesting that noise bylaws be changed to prevent construction workers from working to early in the dark morning.

[Bill Bumface]

Every construction worker I know usually goes from about 7am-6pm anyway, so you're just changing what part of their shift is dark, they usually still catch all the daylight in the darkest months.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by SebC

Couldn't construction sites start work later? If you weren't to start later, would you, or another shift, gain an hour of sunlight in the afternoon, thus offsetting the effect in the morning?

(I'm guessing the reason you can't start working later because you guys start as soon as the noise laws allow you to, but perhaps the noise windows could be adjusted.)

On the flip side, would it not be fair for construction workers to ask you to start an hour earlier at your desk job in the winter so you get your 1 hour of sunlight when you drive home?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

SebC was suggesting that noise bylaws be changed to prevent construction workers from working to early in the dark morning.

Not quite, I was suggesting we change the noise bylaws to allow them to go later. If working it the dark in a problem, it should be regulated through safety legislation rather than indirectly through noise.

Having said that, my post was more about understanding Vulcan's objections than pushing any agenda of my own. It's worth noting that he mentioned starting his shift in the dark as problem even under the current system.

I think we mostly all agree that the extra hour at night is more useful than in the morning in the summer, and most of us agree that it's more important that its light out when kids walk to school than when office workers get out. The question is whether it's easier to achieve that by shifting our time as a whole society through DST or if the parts of society that need/want to shift could make their own schedule shifts.

There are real and measurable adverse effects of the time change, particularly with health impacts and economic productivity. Perhaps we'd be able to reduce those effects if we let certain groups take care of their own schedules (as they relate to sunlight).

[Rutuu]

This thread is a nightmare. They don't have daylight savings time here in Queensland and its constantly debated with a lot of the arguments seen in this thread trotted out. Meanwhile in the summer time here the sun is out at 4am (!!!) and sets just before 7pm on the longest day.

Golf tee offs after 2pm are hit and miss to finish
Kids sports training starts at 430am
Construction starts at 6am
Best of all its a ghost town on the paths when it gets dark, but during the evening hours they're packed.

Careful what you wish for back home...

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Careful what you wish for back home...

Zero people in this thread have wished for that. Everyone has wished for the exact opposite.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Zero people in this thread have wished for that. Everyone has wished for the exact opposite.

People in this thread have argued for both Standard Time year round and others have debated Daylight Savings Time year around.

Greater than zero people have argued for that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

They don't have daylight savings time here in Queensland

That's ridiculous. It must be really annoying for Queensland residents to have to reset their clocks every time the go get groceries in Deer Run, then set them back on their way home. They need to change this.

[Slava]

That's the real reason there is no SE LRT. The trains would just never be on time.